Eminem and censorship


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    Uni girl posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 03:51:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

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    Joined 2/19/2001

    When my son came home from the meeting, he told me that they were told not to listen to Eminem because (in his words) he's bad.
    I can not stomach the kind of censorship that is put upon people...aren't these things a personal choice or at least a parents choice. By censoring everything they make a child go behind their parents back and close the line of communcation which could result in some real harm. I listened to Eminem with my son and whilst some of the things are very offensive it was quite clear to me that although he was talking in the first person, he was actually expressing what he thought societal problems were,(no one think Bob Marley actually son the sheriff do they??)
    I think the main thing is to be with your kids, take an interest so that they do not feel in anyway fearful of expressing themselves, repression is a terrible thing and can hurt the mind awfully. In this mad world all we can do is offer our children support and don't judge them..Eminem is not bad and he will be gone one day, just as soon as he arose and all that fuss will have been for nothing..

    The end...

    claudia posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 04:37:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 179 of 334
    Joined 3/26/2000

    Uni girl, I agree. As the mom of a 16 yr old boy I feel I have instilled enough decency in him, and I trust he is not going to do something stupid because he listened to eminem. The only thing I ask is that he not let his little sister hear some of the music. When I look back at some of the music I listend to.........

    M SanFranciscoJim posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 04:50:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 17 of 1299
    Joined 3/16/2001

    There are two very separate issues being dealt with here:
    (1) The Watchtower dictating what the flock can and cannot do without fear of reprisal. When I was at the 1976 International Assembly in Montreal, one of the Governing Body (I think it was Freddie Franz, but I'm not sure) exhorted the multitudes not to listen to any music which was composed by "known homosexuals". He went on to then spout a laundry list of classical composers from the 18th & 19th centuries, spewing hatred for their "immoral lifestyles", warning the audience that listening to such music could invite demon possession. I never heard such absurdity! So, then, following that same logic, considering that composers are artists, were I to go to an art museum and view works by Van Gough, perhaps I may become demon possessed and do something foolish like chop my ear off. Uh-huh....
    (2) There is a wide chasm of difference between artistic license and inciting hatred. No, Bob Marley certainly did not encourage his listeners to shoot their local sherriff. However, Eminem's so-called "music" is viciously anti-woman and anti-gay. His graphic depictions of what he wants to see happen to those of whom he so vocally disapproves belongs in Nazi propaganda, not on the radio waves of any free society. Ask yourself this: How would you feel if Eminem suddenly became a rabid Jehovah's Witness, and slightly altered his lyrics to condemn, instead of women and gays, "apostates", the spiritually "weak", and the "Harlot of Babylon"? If this brand of "music" is allowed to continue, then I'm afraid I shall have to move post haste to Salem, Massachusetts in that I am sure to be branded a witch and burned at the stake. The middle ages have returned!

    claudia posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:08:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 180 of 334
    Joined 3/26/2000

    Hmmmm, Ok, maybe I should listen to his lyrics a little closer. I wasnt aware that he downed woman and gays. i have heard about 4 of his songs.

    newguy posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:21:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

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    Joined 4/2/2001


    There is nothing wrong with Eminem. And saying his lyrics are Nazi propoganda that should be banned is wrong. Look at it this way: if the 1st ammendment will protect even someone like Eminem (or Larry Flint), how much more so will it protect us?

    Besides, people are free to buy and NOT buy what they want in a capitalist society. If 19 million people buy his records and radio stations get ratings playing his music, then more power to him. Don't begrudge him his success. I listened to his songs on Napster and actually went out a bought the CDs becuase I liked his music so much.

    As Eminem says in one of his songs: "Their just words in a mike."
    So Grow up SFJim and welcome to Capitalism!

    M SanFranciscoJim posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:28:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 18 of 1299
    Joined 3/16/2001

    I take strong exception to your telling me to grow up, Newguy.
    Since when does capitalism dictate the right to demand the injury or destruction of others simply because some celebrity cleverly puts words together into so-called "music"?
    I sincerely hope, Newguy, that you are never mistaken for a homosexual on a dark city street and chased by armed thugs, or that you are never thrown down a flight of steps by a rabid homophobe. THESE THINGS HAVE HAPPENED TO ME!!!
    Maturity comes by looking prejudice straight in the face and calling it for what it is, not making excuses for it.
    Now who needs to grow up? Queen to queen's pawn three.... your move.

    doubtingsister posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:33:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 29 of 41
    Joined 2/28/2001

    Ok, I haven't heard his music, but here's my two cents.

    Some people like to create hurtful, evil things, even songs. They should be pitied. All the money in the world can't change how he must think and feel to write stuff like that. With so many kinds of music to listen to, why that? But, whatever, I don't care what others choose to do and I do feel thankful to live in a society where we have that freedom of choice.
    As for me, I draw the line at lyrics that promote pain, suffering or hatred of others. Period.

    d0rkyd00d posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:44:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 19 of 172
    Joined 4/1/2001

    I'm hoping that this doesn't degrade my entire name on this website, but I absolutely love eminem. He may not be a lyrical genius. Yes, his lyrics are racy. Yes, he uses obscenities. But do you really think he'd be as popular as he is if he wasn't looked down upon for it?

    I love his songs. Maybe not the lyrics in general, but i think they have a great beat and rhythm. I listen to all kinds of rap, whether it be Will Smith or Eminem, as long as it has a good beat to it, I like it.

    Yes, he says some very VERY nasty things in his songs. I don't respect him for it. But I love the beat his songs have, and they have NO EFFECT what-so-ever on my thought patterns. I don't hate gays. I don't hate women. I don't think women are toys, or lesser beings than men. And although I don't support the gay lifestyle, I feel a person has to do what makes THEM happy, and if that means homosexuality, more power to them. The real problem comes in when people who listen to eminem cannot distinguish the difference between reality and fiction. I'm tired of people saying this is what causes school-shootings and all this other stuff. Guess what. The entire country listens to eminem. But you don't see the entire country shooting each other. If that were the effect of his music, then I'd assume he was living back in medieval days. I'll assume he's just as popular in Iraq. No, I think the leading cause of violence worldwide is difference in religious belief, not one man who puts up a false image behind a bunch of words that everybody knows he doesn't mean, and then adds a beat to it.

    "No cool quote yet. But I'll think of one soon."

    d0rkyd00d posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:46:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

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    Joined 4/1/2001

    I forgot to mention one more thing in regards to SanFranciscoJim's comment.

    *****How would you feel if Eminem suddenly became a rabid Jehovah's Witness, and slightly altered his lyrics to condemn, instead of women and gays, "apostates", the spiritually "weak", and the "Harlot of Babylon"? *********

    Well, if this were the case, I'd bet the WTBS would be selling his cd's at the literature counters....

    M SanFranciscoJim posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 06:03:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 19 of 1299
    Joined 3/16/2001
    I'm tired of people saying this is what causes school-shootings and all this other stuff. Guess what. The entire country listens to eminem. But you don't see the entire country shooting each other.

    When I went to high school some 30 years ago (probably long before you were born), school shootings were an unheard of phenomenon. Back then, pranksters would sneak out of school to a public phone booth and call in a bomb scare, and that was the extent of school violence, save for the occasional fistfight.
    d0rkyd00d, while I do not argue the fact that anyone should by rights be able to listen to anything they wish, I think it speaks volumes about today's society by such virulent lyrics having become so popular. By allowing such hatred to flourish, the recording industry is giving the green light to impressionable youth to carry out their hatred and prejudices in ways which would have been unheard of just a few short years ago.
    In my opinion, the only difference between Eminem and Fred Phelps ( http://www.godhatesfags.com/ ) is that the latter wasn't savvy enough to get a recording contract and a good agent.
    Oh, by the way d0rkyd00d, LOL @ your literature counter comment!

    mommy posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 06:09:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 617 of 1799
    Joined 12/26/2000

    Mommy has listened to Eminem!
    My cousin lived with me last year and I was introduced to a new world of music. I found most of his songs funny. I kept thinking this guy can't be serious. He reminded me of Rosanna Danna from Saturday night live, going WAY over the edge to make you realize how close we are to it. Then one day someone brought over the unedited version of his songs.....I didn't even listen to the first song. Much can be accomplished without the use of language.
    I agree with you dorkydood(love the name btw) People are going to do whatever they want to do, with or without outside influence.

    mommy posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 06:14:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 618 of 1799
    Joined 12/26/2000

    SF Jim,
    I appreciate that you are a gay man in America. But I have to agree with the Newguy, your censorship on Eminem, and others views....is really giving the ok for them to censor you. This is a land of free speech, but everyone seems to think that they can draw the line on how far free speech goes. Well in my eyes...why have free speech?

    M SanFranciscoJim posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 06:16:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 20 of 1299
    Joined 3/16/2001

    I'm sorry, Mommy, I don't understand. Please explain.
    It's all right for Eminem to censor me, but I cannot do likewise?
    Yes, where indeed does one draw the line?

    d0rkyd00d posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 06:26:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 24 of 172
    Joined 4/1/2001

    I've always thought of music like movies. Many rappers talk a lot about killing people and the like. Many movies feature people killing each other. In both situations, you know nobody is actually being hurt or killed. So when you censor the music, you can also edit the movies. edit the school's sex ed program. and edit schools, making sure nobody cusses.....

    "No cool quote yet. But I'll think of one soon."

    mommy posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 06:31:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 619 of 1799
    Joined 12/26/2000

    SF Jim,
    Sorry, let me try this again. In your comment:

    By allowing such hatred to flourish, the recording industry is giving the green light to impressionable youth to carry out their hatred and prejudices in ways which would have been unheard of just a few short years ago.

    I am hearing you say that because it is allowed by society to be heard on the radio..people will be more willing to go out and commit these acts.
    I totally disagree, we are living in a society where everyone is fighting for their rights. You are fighting for your rights as a gay man. Recording artists are fighting for their rights to sing whatever they want. My point is, if you are trying to censor his freedom...you are in reality also fighting your own work that you have accomplished.

    M SanFranciscoJim posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 06:48:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 21 of 1299
    Joined 3/16/2001

    I see your point, Wendy, but you need to understand something from my perspective. I assume you're heterosexual. The vast majority of the people on this board are. In fact, if you stopped and thought about it for a moment, you'd probably realize that you subconsciously assumed everyone to be heterosexual unless you were told otherwise.
    Eminem demands the right of free speech, even at the cost of my very right to exist. I cannot begin to tell you the amount of "hate mail" I receive in my email box regularly (including three death threats). That plus several incidents of physical "gay-bashing" have caused me to develop an attitude of intolerance towards those who simply will not let me exist. Eminem, in my opinion, is no better than the elders on my judicial committee who told me at my disfellowshipping: "Jehovah no longer loves you, not for what you do, but for who you are." I see no difference.

    mommy posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 07:03:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 620 of 1799
    Joined 12/26/2000

    Sf Jim,
    You are correct, I am hetrosexual. But amazingly enough I do not see this world as black and white, gay and straight, smart and dumb. I see this world by every individual I meet and his actions. I have learned alot by sitting back and watching peoples reactions to things that go on in their lives.
    With this hate mail and even the physical violence that you have enduredbecause of their hatred....you now have hate in your heart for them. This must be so unsettling for you. You have let their hatred boil inside of you to the point you are willing to take away their rights and make the same grouped cliques that they are doing to you.
    I understand your position and why you are making these comments, I can appreciate this. My heart goes out to you for all that you have to combat daily. I just want to point out to you that, you can continue to fight for your rights, with your head held high. If you give in and act as they do well noone is winning the battle, the principle is lost in the fight.

    Naeblis posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 07:04:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 53 of 1398
    Joined 12/16/2000

    Eminem is a lyrical genius. There is nothing that exists in the realm of "words" that should be offensive to intellignet people. NOthing should be censored. Censorship is the true evil. I pity you.

    Uni girl posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 09:39:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 21 of 42
    Joined 2/19/2001

    I see that I have provoked a lively debate...brilliant!!

    The thing that I agree with is what wendy says...he is funny and extremely entertaining.

    I do not for one minute think that he is single handedly responsible for the problems within the youth culture at all. As I said in my original post, although he talks in the first person it does not neccessarily mean that its his opinion...it works better in the first person. I actually think Eminem is a good thing for USA because he is bringing to the fore the breakdown of the American dream and I think that everyone who is getting their knickers in a twist , is falling foul to propaganda and believing what the media feed them. It does the governments of the world good to discredit him because hes saying what is really true, just like NWA or Tupac. If a smoke screen goes around him then people concentrate more on the supposed offensive lyrics and do not get a sense of the true message. It also works on another level because it stirs up the homosexual community and then they further antagonise the situation so for the powers that be, its a double whammy they alienate not only eminem but also the homosexual community

    I think its stupid to believe that everyone is at the same stage of developing as a human...Eminem was simply verbalising the mumblings of society as a whole and maybe through debating his lyrics some good will come...censorship is never the answer I want freedom to decide what I want to read/listen to, I do not ever want to be told had enough of that when I was a JW

    F Prisca posted Fri, 06 Apr 2001 10:33:00 GMT(4/6/2001)

    Post 334 of 5605
    Joined 12/16/2000

    Why would anyone want to listen to songs that talk about killing someone, raping a woman or murdering homosexuals?


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