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I was on the air today with Dr. Joy Browne

    F Bona Dea posted Thu, 17 Oct 2002 23:59:00 GMT(10/17/2002)

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    I don't know if anyone here listens to Dr. Joy but I love her show and most of the time agree with her advice. Well, today I grew some balls and decided to call in and ask her what she thought I should do in my current situation (which is probably the closest I will come to seeking professional advice). I never mentioned the name of the "religious group" in which my husband was involved, but I informed her about some of the things that they believe and how it was affecting my marriage and family.

    For those of you who haven't had the privilege of hearing my life story already (I post it on nearly every thread that I respond to) my husband is an unbaptized but very active dub. I am not. I was going along for a while until I stumbled on the mounds of info against them and well, here I am. I basically briefed her on the problems my 6 year old is having about understanding all of this. I have no problem with my husband being a dub...he is a grown man and free to make his own choices. But the kids are getting seriously mixed up over all of this (mainly our 6 yr old). And somewhere along the line, my son has came to the conclusion that if he is bad, God is going to kill him. Dear hubby says he never told him that. But my hub reads them horror stories from that yellow My book of bible stories to him every night...so what conclusion did he expect him to draw? He does allow us to celebrate holidays, but at the same time he's telling the kids that Jehovah doesn't approve. Needless to say, not a good situation for a 6 and a 4 year old.

    At any rate, I laid everything out to her and she basically said that we need to find a middle ground for the kids sake but unfortunately when someone becomes involved in a religion like this - that is sometimes not an option; seek counseling (he would never go for that); that him and I should find a second religion (not a chance on that); or I should consider leaving the marriage to protect the mental well-being of the children.

    Anyhow, I was nervous as hell...and excited. Just wanted to let anyone and everyone who may have been listening and thought, "Gosh, she sounds like she's describing the WTS"...well, I was...and that was me!!

    Bye all,

    Bona

    http://www.drjoy.com/air/index.html -- Unfortunately, I couldn't find any archives of the shows

    M Francois posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:08:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Good for you. I think you should carefully consider what she had to say. Obviously your husband doesn't give a rat's ass how what he's doing is effecting his children. That says a ton right there.

    francois

    Double Edge posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:15:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Good for you.....talking on the radio on any subject is difficult, especially with your topic. By the way, I've never been a dub, but I was curious, if your husband is so gung-ho for the JW's, why doesn't he get baptized? Sounds like he's straddling the fence, and when that happens, it seems deep down there must be doubts.

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:18:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Thanks Frank.

    I listened very carefully to what she had to say. The main reason I called was for affirmation. I think I've known all along what is probably going to happen with my family...but just needed to know that I wasn't blowing this whole thing out of proportion in my head. It helps to get some advice from someone on the outside (not family; never been involved with the JWs) and is a trained psychologist to boot.

    M DanTheMan posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:26:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Bona,

    Yes, it would be somewhere between difficult and impossible to find a middle ground with a true-believer jay-dub.

    Kids need love, acceptance, and encouragement more than anything else. If you give these things to them, the details will take care of themselves. Don't hit the panic button over the JW thing, or feel like if your kids take to it somewhere along the way that it's the end of the world. They'll see it for what it is eventually. The more a JW has to fight for his religion, the more difficult it is for them to ever admit that it is not the troof. I've seen it all too many times.

    F Mulan posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:28:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    My niece is going through a bitter divorce, but a few months ago, during an attempt at reconciliationg, they saw a marriage counselor. After laying it all out, on both sides, she said this "Unless you can make some compromises, this is a marriage breaker."

    She was right too. He wouldn't budge on his position, and she couldn't go back to the religion, so it's a broken marriage. The kids are all grown, but it's still a sad situation, after so many years.

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:28:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Hey double edge,

    Yes...I nearly pissed in my pants I was so nervous. I actually cried on the air. I was terrified, to say the very least.

    As far as my husband goes...well, you really just gotta know the man. I think this whole thing just sorta "suits" him (for lack of a better word). He's always been very controlling and very much a non-conformist...never liked Christmas (or any holiday, for that matter), never liked spending money, never liked politics/government, was never much of a "family man", and has always LOVED anything that sets him apart from everyone else. He is a very negative (anti-people) person by nature. "Has something bad to say about everything" kind of person. This is, IMO, just another way for him to control me and the kids, yet under the guise of being "for God", and it fits him since he never cared for half the things they ask their adherents to give up anyway. I think it's just sad that he can't see past himself and see what this is doing to our kids and our marriage. Honestly, I figure it is just a matter of months before he gets baptized.

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:44:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

    Post 144 of 279
    Joined 4/16/2002

    Yes, it would be somewhere between difficult and impossible to find a middle ground with a true-believer jay-dub.

    you can say that again

    Kids need love, acceptance, and encouragement more than anything else. If you give these things to them, the details will take care of themselves. Don't hit the panic button over the JW thing, or feel like if your kids take to it somewhere along the way that it's the end of the world. They'll see it for what it is eventually.

    I have been trying to stay on top of this...but it is so hard. I play out the worst case scenarios in my mind. They'll grow up and join up with the dubs and have nothing to do with me. They'll grow up, reject the truth and my husband will have nothing to do with them. I read posts on here about kids who kill themselves in KH parking lots. It is very hard not to hit the panic button. I ADORE my children. Life is plagued with enough "junk" without having to deal with shear nonsense like: Is God going to kill me if I'm friends with Tiffany because she doesn't go to the KH? I said God bless you today when Steven sneezed...gee, I hope God didn't hear me! "I pledge allegience to the flag"...(I hope God has his ears turned off). My 6 year old is already saying things like "God is going to kill me if I'm not good". I can't imagine what kind of things will play through his mind if this situation persists. And I utterly dread when my 4 year old starts putting some of this stuff together. My kids will have enough problems that will just come from life. It is my hope, that when they get older and mature enough to make decisions for themselves that they will see it for what it is

    The more a JW has to fight for his religion, the more difficult it is for them to ever admit that it is not the troof. I've seen it all too many times.

    I have learned this first hand. When I got out, he was a mediocre believer at best. Now, he's going out in the field service, doing talks at the TMS, and determinedly teaching the kids. It is driving me nuts

    Thanks dantheman

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:46:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Mulan,

    I'm sorry for your niece. These things are so hard. It is especially hard when kids are involved. I hope everything works out alright for them.

    Parousia posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:02:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Just for some perspective as a child....

    I was raised a JW from birth. My parents got in as adults. They grew up with the holidays etc. They never had to face a teacher and a class of kids and explain why they couldn't salute the flag. They didn't have to sit alone in some place doing work while other kids had fun doing holiday activities. They have no idea how bad I felt about myself because I longed to participate or to have someone acknowledge they were happy I was born.

    I felt from a very early age, 5 or 6, that Jehovah knew how I felt and that he would never let me into the new system. I hid all that and put on a good front for years.

    I have two sisters and a brother. We all came through being raised JW's damaged. All of us have had problems like depression, substance abuse, etc. until we got out and got help. Except one of my sisters who is currently in and out of the state mental lock down from suicide attempts. She still feels hopeless. The other three of us have all found hope, peace, and healing. Our lives are and have been stable since we put our trust in God himself by way of Jesus NOT an organization.

    These verses explain what I mean by that, verses that opened my eyes and heart to the peace I now have:
    Romans 12:1-2 "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the spirit of Christ has set you free from the law of sin and death."
    2 Corinthians 5:21, "He made him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
    Titus 3:5, "He saved us not on the basis of deeds done in righteousness, but according to His mercy...."
    1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and He Himself is the propitiation (satisfaction, or payment made in full) for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the whole world."
    1 John 5:13, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know you have eternal life."

    I write all this in order to plead with you to put yourself on your childs level and try to understand the kind of life he or she will face ... one of condemnation, working and never being good enough, or even facing death from having lifesaving blood withheld. And it's a long journey towards healing later in life if they are lucky enough to get out. My sister let my parents take her two kids to the meetings and read the books to them when they were elementary school age. It turns out her daughter has some of the same problems with feeling condemned.

    I wish my parents would have looked into what they were getting their family into. They went about it like buying a car without checking under the hood to see if there was even an engine before handing over all their money! They never questioned any of it and still don't. We are all lost as far as they and the organization are concerned. Three of us are free though and hopefully all of us will be someday.

    Sorry I got kind of long on this ... I got a feeling of urgency like those of rushing into a burning building to save a child from danger.

    Fell and Landed

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:19:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Thank you Parousia for sharing that. People who've experienced things like you are EXACTLY why I want to get my kids as far away from this as possible (and I mean no offense to you by that). I went to school with JW kids. I saw how they would have to leave class when someone's mom brought cake and goodies on their child's birthday, how they would miss out on certain field trips and school activities because of the patriotic or holiday orientation (and most school events are usually one or the other), how they couldn't salute the flag (and the ridicule they received because of that), and how they always looked...so alone. I always felt so sorry for them (and, trust me, my life was no bed of roses). Who in their right mind would want that for their kids??? And I know by my son saying what he has (and he's said other things that really bother me) that he is vocalizing his fear and his feeling of inadequacy...and that, to me, is scary. I am sorry for what happened with you and your siblings. I hope your life is good now (and theirs is too) and that you can go on and learn from what you've gone through. The life you described is definitely not the kind of life I want for my babies.

    Thanks again for sharing

    M A Paduan posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:36:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Does he know that you think it is one big pile of crap?

    And is he already past the stage of reason?

    Tell him this - people already know that jw-god is a make believe asshole - that is a God given gift - so the recruitment then goes thus.

    • We're here to tell you about the real God, we are the ones chosen worthy.
    • Everyone else is tricked by the devil, e ven your own family, you'll see, they'll be the ones who want to stop you
    • - disturbed loving family then says get away from that self-centred nasy crap that disturbs children who don't need someone telling them they're naked
    • "See we told you so - now do you believe us?"
    • Loved one goes off with a mind of their own - believing it must all be love and they're meant for a better purpose.

    There is a bit right at the start of the bible that kids can understand - and it did make God upset - "who told you that you were naked?" They used to be naked but they weren't ashamed of it - then a snake convinced them to think differently.

    paduan

    Edited by - a paduan on 17 October 2002 22:22:30

    M RR posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:40:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Perhaps next time you can take it one step further and take it to the "Jerry Springer Show"

    F lv4fer posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:45:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    You have to let your kids lead a "normal" life. That is the one thing that breaks my heart is when they say we are so glad to be normal now. (17&14) we have just recently left in the last year. They are starting to make new friends (wordly ones because the witnesses aren't allowed to associate with them anymore) this is particulary hard for my daughter, she had a very close girlfriend they were like sisters since 18 months old and now her parents won't let her be with my daughter. I'm sure there will be scars. I just wish I would have woke up years ago!

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:29:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Paduan

    Does he know that you think it is one big pile of crap?

    Yes, he knows exactly what I think about the witnesses. I have shown him everything I have read (the hypocrisy, the corruption, what I believe to be doctrinal errors)...and unfortunately (and strangely), this has only fueled his belief that they are the only ones who have the truth. He has even said by my adamant opposition I have only convinced him even more so that what he is doing is right.

    And is he already past the stage of reason?

    Sadly, most definitely.

    There is a bit right at the start of the bible that kids can understand - and it did make God upset - "who told you that you were naked?" They used to be naked but they weren't ashamed of it - then a snake convinced them to think differently.

    Great logic. I have never really seen it put that way before. That would make perfect sense to a reasonable person.

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:34:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Thanks RR. I knew some sarcastic response like that was inevitable. I was just waiting for the person who would make it...Thanks for contributing. Dr. Joy Browne is hardly comparable to Jerry Springer. A 3 minute anonymous discussion on the radio with a trained psychologist is quite a bit different than showing your face on a disreputable t.v. talk show to millions of viewers .

    Bona

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:45:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Thanks Iv4fer.

    Having a normal life is something so many take for granted until they can see it slipping through their fingers. We didn't get involved with the witnesses until about 4-5 years ago, so I remember all too well how wonderful normalcy (not to be confused with perfection) feels. I mean, just having the freedom to decide to let your son join the cub scouts is something I would have never dreamed would be taken from me, or letting him wear red, white, and blue to commemorate the deaths of 9-11, or let him go on a field trip to a pumpkin farm....these are things that normal people do on a daily basis and take the freedom to be able to do them for granted. These are the kind of things that lead to a holy war in my house...almost daily. Its ridiculous to have to fight for your right (and your childrens rights) to be allowed to just be normal.

    I am sorry for what your daughter is having to go through. I hope she makes a ton of really good and dependable friends. It is good that you have gotten out and are now able to allow her the, if she so chooses, freedom to befriend whomever she chooses...and to have the opportunity of living a simple and normal life. I wish you the best....

    M RR posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:46:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Yeah, but just think of the millions of people you could reach :)

    F Bona Dea posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 12:48:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    LOL...RR, okay, okay....since you put it that way, I'll think about it

    M NewYork44M posted Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:05:00 GMT(10/18/2002)

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    Of all the radio psychologists, Dr Joy is my favorite. She is professional that has a grasp of issues that the others (especially Dr. Laura) do not. I have listened to Dr Joy on and off for may years and have actually benefited from listening. I am sure that those in the audience in a similar position understood exactly where you were coming from.

    Congratulations - you did GOOD!!

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