The Dreaded Elder Visit

I just need to get this off my chest. 

My wife, Nina, received a visit tonight from her book study conductor and his wife.  Now she's made every meeting since I stopped going 14 years ago.  Mostly the Witnesses have ignored her and our children, which is not pleasant, but at least they haven't gone out of their way to hurt them.  Until.  A few months ago my son came down with something called post-viral arthritis.  He was in a great deal of pain, but thank God the virus went away after a month.  It attacked his joints and prevented him from walking and so he was in a wheelchair for about 3 weeks.  Well one Tuesday night they all got dressed and packed the wheelchair in the car and went to the meeting.  Only a couple of people commented on my 6 year old son and no one (even an elder who stopped to ask for my wife's time) seemed terribly concerned, or wondered where she had been for the pas tmonth.  A week later the Dateline show was broadcast.  Afterward I told Nina that if we allow our kids to grow up "in the truth" either they will be like the Witnesses and grow up to hurt people, or they will be hurt by the Witnesses.  There isn't a third choice.  She hasn't been to a meeting since.

After a couple of months, her book study conductor noticed her absence and called.  14 years of anger, shame, humiliation and outrage was bottled up inside her.  She didn't hold anything back and let him have it all.  Among the many colourful things she told him was that no one cared.  Well now he's trying to prove her wrong.  Especially now that the CO's visit is next month.   

He came over tonight to show her how "concerned" he is and (at least, I think) to show her how her faith has been weakend by her "bad attitude".  Naturally he blamed her absence from the meetings on me, The Unbelieving Husband (TM).  At that point, Nina reached in her briefcase and pulled out a colour photo of a registered (and convicted) sex offender that was in her previous congregation.  She slammed it down on the kitchen table and told him that this person, who is still in very good standing naturally, and others like him is why she stopped going.  (Of course the elders in that congregation didn't allow any warnings to be given to unsuspecting parents not to let him be alone with their children, since that would be slander.)  The elder stammered, and told her to not to talk about such things "in front of my wife."  

As he was about to leave he said a prayer, and asked Jehovah to help Nina get her attitude readjusted.  As he was leaving he said that he would come by another day with "a brother" (read:  elder) to "encourage" her.  She called me tonight to tell me the whole story and was very shaken by the whole thing.  She's not afraid of being DF'd, although it mean losing some close friends, but she is feeling pretty stressed out at an implied threat.  I told her that what she needs to do is to change congregations and then just fade away. Slip through the cracks.  But I think that will need to wait for another day, as she's feeling pretty overwhelmed right now.  All I know is they better not come when I'm home, or so help me I'll tear them a new one.

I've never understood the perverse thrill these people get out of intimidating others, threatening and controlling their lives.  This is Christian love?  Anyway, thanks for letting me vent a little.  That's one thing I find invaluable and very special about this board.

: He came over tonight to show her how "concerned" he is and (at least, I think) to show her how her faith has been weakend by her "bad attitude". 

Yeah, he's really concerned after FOURTEEN YEARS:  concerned about making HER wrong and making the CO's stats look better.

Those idiots are so transparent and self-serving, it's unbelievable.

Farkel

 

If the elder was so concerned about what was being said in front of the little wifey, why was she brought along on a shepherding call?  In reality he has to go ask Mommy Watchtower what to do next.  It may be too late to fade out now.  Now that she has voiced doubts, she must either be re-assimilated or eliminated. 

 

Edited by - professor on 27 August 2002 2:38:47

Hey Big TX, sorry to hear your wife had to deal with that, even more sorry your boy had to go through what he did, and yall having to deal with that. I would not let them visit my wife alone, I would be right there with her if the Elders wanted to visit, tell them they should have no problem with you being present, and if they do have a problem with you being there, act like they are trying to show improper interest in your wife.

how awful......hugs for all of you.....especially your son!!

Oh MY GOD,,,,,,, this makes me so mad!!! Your family sounds like ya'll have been thru hell. There is nothing like having a sick child and no one giving  a damn. You are 100% right they are only showing concern because they want to, at the last minute impress someone, or get their butts out of trouble for not helping sooner.

I went thru something similar with the man I used to call Daddy( sorry I have alot of anger) , last year 4 days before a circuit assembly he drives the 40 mins to my house to get me to go to the assembly. He before that point had not had any contact with me for several months. I had in the year before that begged him to help build our relationship back and I had only him since my mom died 16 yrs ago. I waited and waited and no calls. The only and I mean the ONLY reason he came by my house is, he heard we stopped meetings, no one knew why, and he wanted to buck for getting back to being an elder. He thought if he could get me to go back it would be brownie points for himself. I told him NO!!!

At that point my dad still had no real idea why I was not going back. End of story, end of him trying to help me come back, he even called on the cell phone on Sat. to see if I would come on Sunday. I guess one last effort to make himself look good.

The elders in our congregation, bothered me and Wild Turkey for months off and on about our spiritual problems and questioned why we lefted, we kept cool about why, we were not ready to tell it all, because of my hubby's work. Not once did they ask about Jacob, our oldest who was just 14 at the time. Jake was an outstanding public speaker, put in field service time, had various congregation assignments, even carried the mics. Not once in all those months to a year did they ever ask to encourage him, ask if he was doing ok, it was like he didnt exsist anymore. My own dad never asked about him either, but I expected that from him.

After the District convention an elder brought by some of the new books and I couldnt tell him no I didnt want them , he caught me off guard, he then asked how is Jake? I said he had a cold, he said, Oh to bad. That was it , after a year had gone by. The only concern shown was a year too late,Jake hates them now.

I hope you can reason with your wife and tell her how others have been treated the same way. They don't care, they may show concern only for their own benefit. If it will make them look good in the C.O.'s eyes or other elders they will make a pretense of brotherly love. It is a lie.

Our youngest son was born 2 months early, and I know I am telling so much and I hate to ramble on, but I can't even tell you the lack of concern for our family at that time. I was in ICU for over 2 weeks trying to not go in labor , and then he was still born 2 months early. The one elder showed up one time, the friends were even worse, no love at all. No phone calls, no meals to my hubby and other two kids, my daughter Kelly was only 17 months old and Wild Turkey had his hands full trying to take care of her, thank god for his Mama or he would have not been able to work or do other things. There were so callled "worldly" people ( JW term) , that brought by food and showed concern.

I am just telling you this so you might can show your wife. I hope you can save your family out of that loveless , hypocritical cult. Like you said,,,,,, someone will be hurt by the JW's , by being abused or growing up miserable .

Sincerely ,

Dede

They came over to see your wife when you weren't home?? What a bunch of frigging COWARDS. If I were you, I would phone this elder and tell him that he is NOT allowed in your home to speak to your wife unless you are present.

This is what their own rules say anyway isn't it?

Seeing as this brain-dead elder isn't willing to discuss the pedophile problem within the Organization, then it would probably be best if your wife simply didn't talk to them any more. She's under no obligation to meet with them, she never appeared on Dateline and she hasn't DA herself. They have no grounds to DF her, and after she made the comment about the pedophile, the elder probably isn't too keen on discussing it further.

If he tries bringing another elder by, your wife should say something like "I've got a real bad case of PMS, so if you want to risk it, by all means, come by and talk to me." :-)

I guarantee you, they won't.

Oh, this brings back so many memmories. Yes, their LOVE has no end, because it never had a beginning.

I'm so sorry for what you have gone through, and what you will be going through. They will cast the blame of disloyalty  and spiritual weakness on her. They will demean her very existance and walk away feeling that they have vindicated Jehovah and themselves, because they have cleansed the cong. of an unworthy one. It's amazing when one needs spiritual upbuilding and assistance, they can't deliver. Why? Because they are to busy trying to enlarge the ranks and #s by going out in service. So sad.

I'll be thinking of you.

SUSCARRA

I don't want you guys to be DF'd!  It's too much stress to deal with and too much pain. "Nina" has so much to lose after a life time in the org.  What about her dad?  My policy is I put 30 years into this organization, the friends I made are mine, I earned them.  After 30 yrs I deserve some benefits and I will not easily let the elders take them away.  Nina has even more employment time than I do. Probably fading is your best bet for now.  We had our trailer out on the Lake and there is this small hall at Branch. That may be too far but can you find another hall that does not have Ozbeck for the CO?  He seems like a wonderful guy but the reality is different.

I can't believe that elder didn't want this wife knowing EBF was a convicted registered sex offender.  It's called public information in the state of Texas.  But those idiot elders in our hall told us their wives didn't know anything about him either, that sure makes it easier to cover up the crime, doesn't it?  And that's why those women are willing to go up and hug him and welcome him to the hall.  Bro Frank & JB ran the only good hall in the area and they stand up to the idiots in PP.

It's one thing to attend week after week with a child in a wheel chair, I suppose everyone gets used to it.  But to have a perfectly healthy little boy and then show up in a wheel chair is a different story. I have tried to come up with an explanation of why the congregation would not have just run over and asked about your son:  Here it is : One elder had just been caught fooling around with a single young pioneer sister, it was public knowledge as their picture had been in the DMN.  Both were naked and on a motorcycle, the whole hall was snickering and joking about it so intensely that they didn't notice Nina.  After a while a few sisters calmed down and quit laughing long enough to look for Nina but she was already gone. 

Edited by - nanoprobe on 27 August 2002 11:13:15

They always do somebody shitty and then act like it's your own fault.Something similar to this story happened to me also.And then they were at my door all the time begging me to come back to the meetings.They said"You have to serve Jehovah, not men".Well, I don't want to serve a God who's people are stuck up and hurtful.Don't even talk to them when he brings an elder back with him.I say, if you only have to serve God,then he's also the only one you have to answer to.To hell with them.

Well, he beat me to it!    I was going to post the story this morning, but Big Tex works at night and he got the jump on me!  Man, what an evening.  Thank you all SO MUCH for your words of encouragement and support - it really means a lot.  Dede, don't worry - my eyes are wide open and have been for a long time.  I'm not going back.  But I don't particularly want to be railroaded out either.  If I make this permanent I want it to be on my own terms.  Tex didn't mention it, but this past Saturday morning two sisters came by and nervously wanted to know how I was and where I'd been.  They, uh, couldn't stay because, uh, there were other people in the van getting hot, but they just, uh, wanted to stop by and say "hi" and, oh, be sure to call if you want to talk.  I told them how I felt about the way our son was treated when he had the arthritis (our son is SIX YEARS OLD, by the way, which made watching him scream in pain even harder - not that it would be easy at any age) and got so angry just talking about that, that I started to cry.  They beat a hasty retreat.  I didn't bring up my concerns about child abuse because I didn't want to be accused of causing divisions.  However, I had been saving that little TX Dept. of Corrections printout for the next elder who said "boo," and there he was.  Tex thinks the sisters were the advance guard for last night's visit.  I do believe I will take his advice and switch our cards to another congregation, one that was also really good at ignoring me.

Oh, yeah, and I AM PMSing this week - his bad luck!!!!

 

Big Tex,

I am absolutely flabbergasted that NO ONE commented, or expressed concern, that your son was in a wheelchair!  I'm so glad he is better.

And that the guy had the GALL to say "not in front of my wife" in YOUR house. Oh, I can see they have an "equal" partnership! It's more like Daddy and child. She must have the "weaker" vessel thing down pat.

Andee

Not weaker vessel - Stepford wife.  The Hall is full of them, mostly elders' wives, and they all have that same blank, creepy stare.  I guess that's why they didn't say anything when I walked in with Jackson - their computer chips didn't cover compassion.  However, I think I like Nano's explanation better!!!

Nano, thank you so much for your concern and words of wisdom.  Tent is being folded and loaded on camel.  I'm going to try to move our cards to a neighboring congregation that has ignoring people down to a fine art and we'll see if they can leave me alone again like they did the first time (4 years and not one shepherding call and the WT conductor never could remember my name even though I commented at least twice during each meeting).  My dad is very sympathetic and encouraging about our situation and agrees with most of it.  He's been around a long time and is disturbed by the changes he's seen in the past 20 years.

Thanks, everyone!

Don't allow them to come over without an appointment. That has worked for me

OMG, what a horrible situation! Hope your son is better and you too!

Sorry to hear of the emotional torment you all had to go through, I agree with Wild Turkey, in that don't be there without your hubby. As far as friends go, a true friend will talk to you no matter what.

the treatment of humans is governed stricktly.

they allow their consciences to be overridden by men, their compassion to be turned on or shut off at will by their organizational decree.If it changed in policy tomorrow the majority would change with it.                                                                  (as quoted by Ray Franz)                               

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ it will get better }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Way to go, Cruz!!!!!!!!!!!! You seem to really have your game plan down good. My hubsband and I did and it worked that way for us for about a year. Then we got "caught" lol smoking, and got ratted on. We just got tired of hiding things we did, we like to go out  to dance and drink on weekends, since we never had any fun for so long. We do lots of other things too, things with the kids , movies, outdoor events, etc.  My hub likes a good cigar now when he drinks a beer, and I was just really curious about smoking. I know it was really crazy to pick up one and risk getting addicted to them at my age , but I said what the hay,,,,,,, turns out I was right , I don't like cigs.

But anyway,,,,,,, I tend to ramble.......this MS ratted on us and our elder was told and they wanted to meet. It was either lie, or get d/f or to d/a ourselves.

We had talked about the scenerio if we did get caught doing something that would make them give us a call. Since we felt that we wanted to be the ones to make the choices in our lives, right or wrong, we would wait it out and deal with it as it came along. We knew that we could get caught smoking, as we go to a nice dance club and it is a public place. I have ran into several JW's there, the ones that are "spiritually weak", or leading a double life.

Honestly it was not that bad , making my choice to d/a myself. In my heart I already have. But we did tell the elder that the reason for us was not smoking, as I don't smoke anymore, but that we don't agree with the WT anymore and the way they handle things. I am sure many will think it was the smoking, but I intend on telling anyone who will listen the REAL reason we d/a ourselves.

You sound like a strong woman , keep us posted on what happens, and keep up the good work.

I know what you mean about a little one being in pain, my youngest is 7 and has an earache, that kept him up ALL night........ it is hard to deal with , you want the pain to go away so bad.  Can you tell me a little more about this illness he had? I have heard a little bit about it, but my 15 yr old has arthritis as do I, and it has flared up really bad in his ankles this last week. I am thinking it is football practice, but before that we all had some kind of virus. Thanks, Dede

It was doubly scary because it was so sudden.  Jackson had been sick with something his allergist said was probably a sinus infection so she treated it with antibiotics.  She said there was 10% chance it was viral pneumonia but she didn't think so.  I do wonder in retrospect because he had a 99.5 fever for a few days that wouldn't go away, but the antibiotics seemed to help and he seemed fine.  Exactly one week after he finished the antibiotics, he stopped in the playground and told his dad, "my foot hurts."  By that evening his leg was hurting so bad he started to cry when I tried to help him dress for book study, so I gave up on going (didn't feel like it anyway).  I gave him children's Tylenol & put him to bed.  Still complained about it in the morning, but I put it down to growing pains, or twisting his leg, and I gave him Motrin that time and sent him to school.  He seemed fine all morning (Dad checked on him when he wasn't looking).  By the time I got home from work that night, he was laid out in a recliner and could barely move.  His joints were hot and swollen - but not red - and I got scared.  Dad stayed home from work and watched our daughter while I took Jack to the ER.  They ran all sorts of blood tests on him (I think they were scared of the really bad stuff like leukemia and rheumatoid arthritis and Lyme Disease) and came back with a diagnosis of "post-viral arthritis."  Basically, he had a virus in his system that was working its way out through his joints and it was just going to be there for 4-6 weeks.  Only thing to do for it was give him Motrin around the clock and wait it out.  Yeah, right.  That was Friday night.  Saturday night he was screaming the house down so I went back to the ER.  They gave me a lecture about bringing him back when I got a perfectly good diagnosis the night before but gave him Tylenol with codeine to shut me up.  Sunday morning Big Tex went to fill the prescription and picked up some arthritis cream on the chance it might help.  Guess what?  The main ingredient in arthritis cream is the same stuff they make Mace out of, and Jackson spread the cream on his knees and then a few minutes later touched his eyes.  Well, we had the paramedics, police AND fire department on our front lawn hosing him off for 20 minutes.  Poor little kid - of course we felt like real heels for putting him through THAT too.  Sunday night was bad and we fed him so much Tylenol with codeine that he started throwing up Monday morning.  We were desperate and went to his allergist, who ran more blood tests, and his pediatrician, who mercifully had a good friend who is one of only two pediatric rheumatologists in North Texas, and she confirmed the diagnosis of post-viral arthritis.

It just gradually went away, but that poor kid was in hell for a good two weeks.  We had to use pillows to prop him in a fixed position in bed because if his legs moved he screamed.  We rented a wheelchair for him and he was able to attend most of the last week of Kindergarten.  By that time he was feeling well enough in spurts (it was worse at night) to enjoy the attention - the K girls fought over who got to push him around.  Of course, all this happened two weeks before we were due to go on a non-refundable trip to Disneyworld!  We went, with the wheelchair, and by the end of the trip he was fine.  At first he tired easily, so we were glad he had the chair to sit in, and it earned him a kiss from Snow White, not to mention line-cutting for most of the rides.

Now, the good thing about this type of arthritis is (1) it goes away (2) PERMANENTLY (3) with no permanent damage because the pain moves around and doesn't stay in one joint long enough to do permanent damage.  The only permanent situation is my not ever setting foot in a Kingdom Hall again after the way they treated him, but from what I've seen and experienced, that's not a bad thing at all.

Nina

I feel so sorry for ya'll, god that breaks my heart. Glad to hear he is doing better. I know what you mean about the arthritis cream, i used it too and it burnt my skin so bad and I too got it in my eye even after I washed myhands several times. Ya'll have been thru alot ,, glad to hear you still have your sense of humor, about not setting foot back in the hall!!!!!!!!!!!  Sounds like you need some time away from that crap anyway. It is just too much stress to try and live up to what they want you to do, even when you believe it to be true. When I started doubting it to be true, it was harder and harder to go and listen to their crap.

Have a cup of tea and put your feet up , and Big Tex and little tex too, yall deserve it.

Hugs , Dede

cruzanheart and Big_Tex,

Sorry to hear about your little one. Glad he is doing better. I find it amazing what little ones go through sometimes.

WildTurkey is right. Do NOT let any of those 'elders' visit you when your husband is not home. Plus, take it from me - a fellow ex-JW (driftee) who remembers that they came over several times to visit my wife (a JW - now ex-wife). I ALWAYS stood in the background - giving them stares, making them a tad nervous - they usually didn't stay too long to talk to her. (Making people nervous is my Trademark move.)

Whatever you do - don't take any crap from them.

Regards,

Jim TX

P.S. Having that info on the known sex-offender is a really good card to be 'holding'. Sorta like a royal flush in poker.