Secret Letters and files

It still bothers me very much that they are allowed to keep files on us and that we have no right to see the contents.  They can choose to look at them or destroy them, whatever THEY wish, but our wishes about a file with our name on it, about our lives is not unavailable. 

When you change halls a letter is written about you to the next group of Men in Black.  You are not allowed to read it before it is sent and unless you really know the elder who wrote it, you probably won't know what it said at all.  I had one elder, my good friends husband tell me NO I couldn't know but it was all good, but its confidential.  Another body had such a nice letter written and the elder who wrote it did read it to me.  However, one body of elders wrote a "not so nice" letter about me when I changed halls since I didn't agree with them about several things and decided I was changing halls.  I never found out what they said but cleared it up with the new hall who understood what I was going through and what my disgruntles were about.  They also, frankly, agreed with me. 

I think that secrecy should not be part of the Borganization.  You should know exactly what is said about you, not behind your back stuff!!

I might try and get any info they've got about me about me using the data protection act.

But do you think it'd put a blot on my family's record with the JWs if I do? - my mum's inactive but still in and I don't want to create any problems for her.

http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk/ 

http://www.mtcp.co.uk/campaigns/dataprotection.htm

Judicial Committee files are kept even after your death at Bethel but local elders are supposed to destroy their local copies after seven years, which some do and others do not.  The letters of recommendation that get passed to the next kingdom hall's elders often contain many cruel falsifications, but citizens of the United States are not usually allowed to see either the Judicial Committees file records or the letters-of-recommendation about themselves with this based on the separation of church-and-state. 

Those in the European Union it would appear are allowed by EU law to see the documents and I think this may hold true also for Canadian Jehovah's Witnesses.  However the Watchtower Society has its "creative" ways of getting around such laws.  For example they can advise elders to read a letter or file then destroy it locally although a copy is kept in the U.S. at the Bethel headquarters and the elders in your new kingdom hall simply keep in their minds or "private" notes whatever was said in the orginal documents.

Another clever way to backstab members is for them to say nothing specific about you but to say something like "this brother would greatly benefit from the disciplining applied to Job"  or even less specifically "Proverbs ## : ## comes to mind when thinking of this sister."   Also they can  "confidentially" telephone what they think of you to the next kingdom hall etc.

If you find yourself on the "outs" with the elders in one kingdom hall what may happen is this.  They can act so-so to lukewarm nice to you while you are at their kingdom hall, then send a letter recommending you be put under severe discipline at the next hall which gets carried out there for no reason that you can figure out.  That next hall's elders may observe or spy on you about six months then start working to "refine" you. 

They may not even know whatever it is that the previous elders disliked about you but feel "honor-bound" to act in line with the recommmendations.  You will be expected to take the "tough love" treatment the whole time until you move to still another kingdom hall.  There, if you do not talk "disloyally" about how the previous hall's elders "mistreated" you or other people but you do pioneer constantly and attend all the meetings, then they might just start giving you a few priveleges.

I cannot say this is done at everyone of the 90,000 or so congregations earthwide, but I can and do say it is done at those that I know of in the United States.  It may not hold true for all U.S. congregations but believe me it holds true for all too many.   There are good elders but there are also snakes who act nice to your face and gleefully stab you in the back just as Mother Bethel pleases and allows.

Maybe five years ago at a Ministerial Training School in the U.S. elders were told to start administering their own discipline at their own kingdom halls while a person attended there instead of passing along the recommendation that they undergo fire from the next body of elders.  This is what was taught "officially" but "unofficially" the word was "you can ignore what was taught because it was just one of those things that was taught for appearances to protect the Governing Body and its staff up in Bethel in Brooklyn."

Yes, there's too much of this that goes on.  Hope this helps.

I've been wondering about this matter myself.  Are there any elders/former elders posting here who might enlighten me as to just what it is that is contained in those publisher records - especially what is passed on when one transfers to a different congregation?  If I am a witness in "good standing" who chooses to switch congregations for personal reasons - possibly due to a personality clash or difference of opinion with one or more of the elders in the former congregation - is this likely to be mentioned to the new elders?  Is the letter they write to the new congregation simply one of introduction, stating, yes, he/she is a witness in good standing and here is his/her publisher card - or does it get into personality, perceived weaknesses or areas in need of improvement ... Just how much do these new elders know about me? 

It certainly wouldn't be fair to carry with me throughout eternity the baggage and labels placed on me by some biased, imperfect individual who fancies himself a flawless judge of the human character.  Just what is in those records???

I was an elder for a short while and have limited experience of the "goings'on" between elder bodies.  I do know from experience (being a baptized JW for 22 years) that on numerous occasions bothers moved congregations and were never re-appointed to the position they held previously.  I think the move was used as an opportunity to punish some and elders refused to recommend the brother.

I had the publisher record cards for about 9 months and there was nothing with them that contained notes or secret records about congregation members.  I do remember the PO giving me the record cards for a sister who had moved to our area.  With the cards was a letter from her previous cong's elders detailing how much trouble she had caused, how she had been DF'd and reproved previously.  I felt she deserved a clean slate and not knowing what to do with the letter, I destroyed it.  I don't believe it was passed around the other elders but I am sure the PO would have recalled it in conversations.      

I found being an elder was a real eye-opener.  I was brought up to believe that elders were special, Godly and caring men.  I always felt I was never good enough to be an elder but after I was appointed and, later quit, I felt I was too good to be the JW overseer and quit in disgust and what was going on and what I observed.  Being an elder led to my eventual realization and I quit totally two years later.

I often wonder what the back-stabing, rat-bags said about me when I moved congregation.

Thirdson

I wrote the "Society" and requested a copy of my disassociation letter I sent to them a long time ago. They sent me a letter of refusal!  Said it was 'Confidential" material.

I know one of the eders where my Mother In law lives got a copy. She asked him if it was OK to associate with me and he got a copy of my letter and told her it was OK....Now this was quite a bit back that she was told this! I just requested a copy a few months ago!

You would think if the requst for a copy was notorized it would be OK..Nope.

Too much incriminting evidence against someone in that letter!

I wish I had kept a copy!

Golden Girl.....

So, is this how it would work? I've been away soooo long, way past the seven year mark. So the former (DF'ing) cong would have destroyed the JC notes or whatever. Let's say I moved and wanted to go to the KHall, and told them I had been DF'd years ago. Would they then call Bethel to get the scoop? Or would they call the former cong and pick their brains?

Has anyone ever gone back to a new KHall and just pretended like they were "in good standing" (i.e., never mentioned the DF'ing)? I know I know, get struck dead by lightning for that. Just wondered if anybody ever tried it, and if they did, what happened? ... ;)

Grits

The Freedom of Information Act only applies to Federal government agencies.

If you want some information that the Federal Government has, then you can request it... however, it does not extend to the local or state governments, or private organizations.

A lot of the states and local governments do have their own acts that are similar, but you would have to write a letter to a representative to get information about them.

Regarding any private organizations, you are subject to their internal policies.  Just as you can take notes on and video tape people in public areas... so can a private organization.  Such information becomes yours and is protected by privacy and search and seizure laws.

Edited by - Elsewhere on 23 August 2002 13:19:39

Elsewhere:

does this include "recording devices (audio)" in the kingdumb hall i wonder?

Just another example of JWs being denied the basic rights citzens of any enlightened, free society in "Satan's world" take for granted.  JW drones are conditioned to think they have only OBLIGATIONS, not RIGHTS.

I asked the PO elder to confirm to me that I could get a scriptural divorce. After 8 WEEKS!!! yes, 8 long weeks, he told me that I was indeed entitled to a scriptural divorce. I asked him to put it in writing - he replied that he could not do this because of the data protection act. Then he said that if I moved to another congregation they would get a letter from him confirming that I was scripturally divorced. how bizarre. one rule for him and another rule for me....  I stopped going to meetings for 2 years, and now attend the Sunday meeting only, at other congregations i.e. as a visiting sister. I have no intention of 'signing up' to a new congregation because I do not want any written records and letters being passed from pillar to post, without my knowledge of what is in them. I also have no hangup about not putting in a field service report, because basically, Jehovah knows what time and effort I put into witnessing every month. Too much red tape I say...

Hello and welcome, Donnye!

(interesting that this thread was bumped after all these years, also, with JWFacts' recent thread on getting his records!)

Yes this is one of the many problems. Someday I will  be able to relate my story on the "Secret Letters" that are wrote about Elder/MS and Publishers. Question is how did this become the norm...what scripture supports the writing of negative, unverifiable statements? The body of elders that wrote the letter are the one that are suppose to make sure that everything in them was discussed with the one the letter is being writen about. With corrupton and hyprocrisy running rampant there is no way to get any justice. Help is not available from the WBTS as they have even greater problems and are the promoters of the way these letters are handled.