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All those times Jehovah answered my prayers...

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    Julia Orwell posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 08:26:10 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 2438 of 3295
    Joined 1/26/2013

    ...and granted me strength, friends, a job, whatever...was all either through my own effort alone or sheer luck.

    I wanted a government job so I prayed for one and went out looking for one every day for ages and made a heap of applications...and got one. My own effort.

    I wanted a friend and prayed for one, crying myself to sleep with loneliness.....and after 6 months in the new congregation someone reached out to me. Chance.

    I prayed to be able to stand up to my family when they put pressure on me about Christmas etc...my own cult conditioning so strong.

    I prayed to find a nice husband...luck when I moved congregations and one of those sisters who just has to match make introduced us. Chance.

    I prayed for financial stability...then I worked for years to get a degree. My own effort.

    I prayed every day for my family to 'come into the truth'... and it turns out they always had it.

    It was never Jehovah. He didn't give me anything. Fourteen years of praying every day and things happened because I made them, or because of chance.

    What about you? How were your prayers 'answered'?

    Aunt Fancy posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 08:59:20 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 476 of 771
    Joined 9/20/2012

    I use to pray years ago and nothing happened so I stopped and I honestly feel that you make things happen by hard work and persistence. Our life is very stable right now and we are doing well financially but it is because we busted out butts to make it happen. i look at the JW's and with all of the praying they do their lives do not go well as a general rule.

    Witness My Fury posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 09:05:22 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 1888 of 2750
    Joined 5/11/2010

    Almost never, and the single time I felt i got an answer it was like yours on reflection just chance, circumstances etc with no external supernatural cause.

    God sucks at his job or maybe he's too busy helping born agains find their keys or win at sports?

    Farkel posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 09:15:42 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 11723 of 11743
    Joined 3/14/2001

    : What about you? How were your prayers 'answered'?

    When I stopped praying for answers the miracles started happening and then I realized the miracles were there all along whether I prayed or not.

    This opened up huge new possibilities. I could give a god all of the credit, none of the credit or just some of the credit. It's now MY choice because the miracles keep coming (when I least suspect them). That is magical.

    Farkel

    Julia Orwell posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 11:19:28 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 2440 of 3295
    Joined 1/26/2013

    I find believing god isn't going to answer prayers if he even exists motivates me more to get out there and make life happen. One can stagnate as a jw, rolling everything onto Jehovah, as they say, and waiting on Jehovah and leaving it in his hands. Or the 'I went out witnessing more and answered up more etc so Jehovah should bless me' mentality ie make an offering to your god in exchange for a good harvest mentality, ie earn favors from Jehovah. Seen it so often. Now it's nice to realise we make our own destinies.

    Fernando posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 11:42:07 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 2389 of 3230
    Joined 9/21/2009

    Sometimes it seems to me prayers are often answered once a person has forgotten about the prayer.

    M MadGiant posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 12:11:57 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 369 of 794
    Joined 8/2/2008

    I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs.

    ~Frederick Douglass, escaped slave (1817-1895)

    adamah posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:03:13 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 1348 of 2431
    Joined 6/19/2013

    Being a part of nature, the human brain also abhors a vacuum, except it's vacuum is that of an explanation for why things happen.

    But rather than finding the actual answer, the imagination is quite able and willing to fill the empty space with a fantastic explanation, if allowed. The process is called 'confirmation bias', and the perception of prayers being answered is a great example of it.

    Granted, part of prayer is identifying problems that you want to ask God to provide an answer to, and that first step is a part of any approach to problem-solving, with or without God. But the difference is what happens AFTERWARDS, when the person takes steps to fix the problem.

    It's like the old joke about the guy who prays everyday to win the lottery, and God finally says, "You know, you could at least meet me halfway by actually BUYING a lottery ticket!".

    Of course, believers give God the credit for 'hits' when whatever they asked for actually happens due to their own efforts, but they also let God off the hook for 'misses', blaming themselves for being unworthy of what was asked, or feeling guilty for even daring to ask, etc. God cannot lose in that kind of environment of after-the-fact rationalizations occurring in the minds of believers, since it's simply unacceptable to them that God should lose (at least, until they are mentally-strong enough to accept that God exists only in their minds).

    Adam

    jeremiah18:5-10 posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:15:18 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 197 of 230
    Joined 6/22/2012

    Mealtime prayers, "thank you heavenly father for providing this food...." Used to bother me, because everyone else (non jws) were eating too. So if he's providing for them too, what makes us so special. Guess you can give credit wherever you choose to. You can see what you want, doesn't make it so.

    tec posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:21:24 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 12288 of 12939
    Joined 3/5/2010

    Sometimes it seems to me prayers are often answered once a person has forgotten about the prayer.

    Yes, that happens to me too, Fernando.

    Though I have come to understand that prayers of God, and questions of Christ... are not really the same thing. My questions of Christ are answered by Him. (whether I choose to listen or not is upon me) That answer may come LATER, even sometimes after forgetting the question was asked to begin with.

    I can't speak as to "Jehovah"... and it is not the name pronunciation so much; but who you are praying TO. (like if you think that God is going to kill billions, including people who follow His own sons' teachings, then that 'jehovah' does not exist... and how can you expect to be heard? Or if you are wishing for others deaths and if you are 'beating' others down, ignoring those in need, etc... how can you expect to be heard?)

    But God, the Father of Christ... does answer prayers. Though one might want to keep in mind the prayer that Christ taught people to pray. There wasn't a whole lot of asking things for themselves. Christ did say that we could ask for holy spirit, and we can ask for ears to hear Him, and faith, all to do His will.

    Peace to you,

    tammy

    NVR2L8 posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:28:59 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 779 of 1000
    Joined 1/2/2011

    At one time I was fevently praying for a close friend who was battling cancer...at the same time I was also praying to find a job after the company I worked at for almost 3 decades was shutting down...Guess what? I found a new great new job and never missed a day of work but my friend died a few months later...I wonder how God decided whichof my requests he should fullfil? I would have very much preferred he saved my friend as I could have gone without a job for a few years after receiving a large severance pay...Nope...I guess it was easier for God to get me a job.

    cofty posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:29:44 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 9156 of 13478
    Joined 12/19/2009

    Praying to god is like praying to a rock that can give 3 possible answers..

    Yes
    No
    Not yet

    Add some wishful thinking and confirmation bias and praise Jeeebus.

    adamah posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 16:52:06 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 1350 of 2431
    Joined 6/19/2013

    TEC said-

    But God, the Father of Christ... does answer prayers. Though one might want to keep in mind the prayer that Christ taught people to pray. There wasn't a whole lot of asking things for themselves. Christ did say that we could ask for holy spirit, and we can ask for ears to hear Him, and faith, all to do His will.

    Holy Simoly.

    That would be asking for ourself, since the theme of the Bible is understood by even a five-year old: seek God's favor to do his will is the key to OUR salvation (AKA saving one's own arse), and hence why prayer is as selfish a concept as they come. It's asking God for blessing and special favors so WE can survive his wrath. It's no less morally-reprehensible than grown men who push small children and women aside to secure themselves that last seat in a life boat.

    Even if the one asking in prayer is requesting God's favor for others in their lives, it's STILL a selfish request, since praying for OUR loved ones to be blessed is to OUR benefit.

    The ONLY possible neutral "moral" prayer is to ask God to give complete strangers living on the other side of the Planet blessings, since their blessing likely would never benefit you. However, that's just to get one's prayer to 'neutral' morality and motives: if you want to actually help strangers living in Africa, then donate funds to an organization that actually does something to IMPROVE their living conditions (eg sohip.org, a group that provides water that's safe for drinking and for basic sanitation, using raw materials that were readily-available back in Jesus' time).

    Speaking of Jesus, note that he poo-poohed the value of handwashing; unlike Jesus, the sohip volunteers actually understand modern science, for as the Center for Disease Control says, "handwashing is the single-most important intervention for reducing the transmission of microorganisms that cause disease".

    Unlike Jesus, the volunteers at sohip are actually doing something to help people living on the other side of the Planet in Zambia, and are NOT discouraging a proven intervention that is well-known to actually help improve people's lives in the here and now.

    (Donations are accepted at their website.)

    Adam

    KateWild posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:01:26 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 359 of 4469
    Joined 10/17/2013

    On another board at 14 this person said they prayed to God as the dad raped them in the KH office. An elder walked in during the rape. This mean't the prayers were answered? No

    The elder said to the Dad, Oh I am sorry for interuppting brother. Then did not say a word about the abuse to the child or anyone. That was the last time the 14 yr old prayed to God.

    I don't think God cares about anyone

    tec posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:12:39 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 12294 of 12939
    Joined 3/5/2010

    You notice that you can't let a comment of mine go by, Adamah, without fighting against it, lol.

    I said there wasn't a 'whole lot of asking things for themselves'... then said some things that are good to ask for.

    Your handwashing example is absurd. Christ was making a point about putting on a front... appearing clean (like the wts puts on a front to outiders)... when in reality, inside, they are filled with 'dead man's bones'. With all of your deep research and thinking, surely you understood THAT?

    Peace to you,

    tammy

    Ucantnome posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:17:35 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 1017 of 1427
    Joined 8/20/2011

    i got more faith

    Sayswho posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 17:56:12 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 571 of 587
    Joined 4/25/2010

    According to the Lords Prayer, god is supposed to GIVE us what we need...it doesn't say to beg for what we need!
    • And since children don't know how or who to pray to, god lets them DIE?
    • I used to pray but found god unproductive...at least in a positive way.
    • However if anyone prays for people to die...lets say from malnutrition...he answers that one!??
    ***Global hunger now afflicts nearly a billion people worldwide. Severe acute malnutrition, however, is the more immediate killer: it threatens the lives of 19 million children. Every year at least 3.5 million of them die from malnutrition-related causes.
    The prayer as it occurs in Matthew 6:9–13
    Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed be your name.
    Your kingdom come,
    your will be done,
    on earth, as it is in heaven.
    Give us this day our daily bread,
    and forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from evil.

    problemaddict posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 18:07:51 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 1361 of 2178
    Joined 8/30/2012

    Adam,

    Can you help me with the jesus wasn't big on handwashing claim? I haven't heard theat before. Not doubting you, just trying to see how I could have missed that.

    tec posted Sun, 10 Nov 2013 18:17:54 GMT(11/10/2013)

    Post 12298 of 12939
    Joined 3/5/2010

    Mark 7:1-23. (consider making sure you read from the start to see who was taking issue for who, and why)

    Peace,

    tammy

    adamah posted Mon, 11 Nov 2013 00:52:39 GMT(11/11/2013)

    Post 1357 of 2431
    Joined 6/19/2013

    Problemaddict said-

    Can you help me with the jesus wasn't big on handwashing claim? I haven't heard theat before. Not doubting you, just trying to see how I could have missed that.

    As TEC pointed out, the account of Jesus denouncing handwashing as worthless is a by-product of his rant against the Pharisees and their so-called "man-made" and burdensome oral traditions, which eventually came to be written down in the Talmud, long after Jesus' death (circa 200CE).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Torah

    As the article says, the Sadducees were big critics of the 'oral laws', and in this regard Jesus sided with them against the Pharisees. However, the Sadducees didn't believe in concept of resurrection (which obviously was a show-stopper for Xianity!), so Jesus didn't really 'fit' into either of the sects of his time. Besides, Jesus wasn't a joiner/follower, but a leader (which is an expected personality trait for a would-be Jewish messiah claimaint).

    Read the article, and you'll see that there's actually some compelling evidence to indicate such an oral tradition existing in Hebrew society, and many parts of the written Torah (i.e. Genesis-Deuteronomy) contains gaps and/or references to that found in the oral law (as later recorded in the Talmud). The critics (Sadducees) rightly pointed out the problem with a possibility of introduction of laws over time, since it wasn't written down.

    But for all of the issues to pick with the Pharisees over their "useless" and "burdensome" oral traditions and to denounce as "worthless", Jesus had to pick the ONE example that science later confirmed as having some actual public-health validity to it: the benefit of handwashing before eating a meal.

    Since handwashing before eating IS KNOWN to be beneficial and healthy practice from the 'germ theory of disease' standpoint, Jesus sure doesn't look like he knew any better (Jesus of course cured based on the old, "disease stems from sin" theory, where his cure was based on the concept of his being authorized by Jehovah to cure via foregiveness of their sins).

    Xians inevitably will protest Jesus' denouncement, claiming that handwashing at the time wasn't effective anyway, or that the water wasn't clean, blah, blah, blah. I'm writing an article on my blog that will address all those weak-sauce apolegetic claims.

    Adam

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