WHY does God fail to...

...attain unanimous support from His creation of free moral agents? From the majority at least.

Apparently according to the WT interpretation of God's own book...a prominent Spirit creature who made himself Satan became unsatisfied and left God.Later untold numbers would join the Devil.
Now the only solution for the future of these 'rebels' would be for God to destroy them.

Then the very first human creatures apparently also felt unsatisfied and withdrew from God.They got destroyed.
Later God had to confuse the language of all humans because they were unanimously opposed to God. Those people too are history.

Then God had an ark built because All flesh had left God's way except for a handful of people.
Evidently God was not expecting any great number to actually join Noah, otherwise God would have had Noah build several Arks! Well God did what he had to do and so pulled the plug and sent the work of his hands down the drain.

Then God chose a Nation to follow his ways. It all went well for a short time but soon God had more complainers than sympathizers and so off to the chopping block God sent them.

Finally God sent His most loyal supporter hopefully to recruit the masses from that so-called dedicated Nation. Nothing of the sort took place instead they nailed His Son to (something) and scattered the few followers that did support him.The rest of that Nation soon faced you guessed it... destruction.

Through out the Centuries since there has never been any unanimous support for God on earth.All
that ever happens is that people die one way or another.
Today too according to WT who feels they alone are the most "loyal" supporters of God they say only few humans will side with God and so soon God will have to, well destroy untold billions. Even among these "most loyal" of all humans, a million or more have left their ranks and each day many more leave.According to the WT God will have to destroy these too!

This scenerio boggles my mind...why God cannot get the majority of intelligent creatures on His side. In fact according to His 'book' He knows most will not so the ONLY solution is to destroy them!

Of course the above reasoning comes to me from the WTS. So maybe there in lies the problem. For me the WT explaination is no longer clear enough.

Why in His Omnipotence could He not show convincingly who He is and why we should unite with Him? Perhaps an explaination from God is forthcoming, because so far all what I've heard from the WTS sounds more and more like MYTH.

I would appreciate any comments.

Respectfully
Martini.

Very good question. I have pondered this myself for a very long time. It just doesn't seem right, does it? Why would the majorityof mankind reject God?

I have prayed for years for some sort of sign from God, not to explain everything but to merely let me know what it is that he wants me to do.

Martini,

We as humans don't have an exact count of all the spirit creatures in the heavens that stayed faithful to Jehovah, furthermore raise your eyes high up in the sky and see the stars and if you had a powerful telescope you would probably see some galaxies. In those galaxies you would probably find solar systems like ours. Wether some of these solar systems are inhabited our not we have not been told by our creator directly but one can only imagine that if Jehovah God has promised eternal life to those who love Him, I'm sure He has plans to keep them busy.

It would be presumptuous to conclude that God does not have the majority of his servants as faithful and loyal.

Your point is taken, Spec. But I hope you realize that Martini is speaking of the human race,who according to Scripture, was made in God's image.

Frenchy,

I thought he was talking about all of God's servants in heaven or on the earth.

Hello Friends,
Both of you are correct.
When I spoke of the majority of free moral agents,
Frenchy is correct by saying I was refering to the human race on earth.
As far as having allegiance in heaven, well Spec you are correct we have no way of knowing how many Spirit creatures remained loyal to God except
what the inspired account reveals to us, and it says that many broke ranks to join Satan.

Another point I wanted to add to this question I'm pondering is that Revelation tells us that a great many will rebel against God at the end of the thousand years when Satan is released for a short time. Why would anyone choose to rebel after having witnessed paradise conditions is above me!
Again this is how the WTS has interpreted these writings so the root of my question then seems to be whether or not WT theology is accurate concerning these events.
I'm not so much concerned to know whether some other belief system has all the correct answers because I don't believe there is ANY belief system that has the complete Truth. What bugs me is that we JW's through the WTS insist to be God's exclusive channel for Truth. Basically we are given the impression if we JW's don't know something spiritual certainly no one else knows better.
A little examination though is proving this to be false. I'm interested to know when will our WTS officially retract or prove this extraordinary claim.
Do you feel the WTS has knowledge over and above any other belief system?

Warmest greetings,
Martini.

As one local brother told me - straight faced - "Whatever the old men in NY say, that's good enough for me."

The Society wants us desperately to believe they are God's only channel......and they're willing to kick us out and us be shunned by friends and family for the rest of our lives if we don't believe they are God's only channel.

Rather puts them in a bad light for PR purposes, doesn't it? Does it seem rational that God would kick us out for - not challenging him - but for challenging an earthly organization which has repeatedly changed over the decades?

The questions never end, do they?

Hello Friends,
Both of you are correct.
When I spoke of the majority of free moral agents,
Frenchy is correct by saying I was refering to the human race on earth.
As far as having allegiance in heaven, well Spec you are correct we have no way of knowing how many Spirit creatures remained loyal to God except
what the inspired account reveals to us, and it says that many broke ranks to join Satan.

Another point I wanted to add to this question I'm pondering is that Revelation tells us that a great many will rebel against God at the end of the thousand years when Satan is released for a short time. Why would anyone choose to rebel after having witnessed paradise conditions is above me!
Again this is how the WTS has interpreted these writings so the root of my question then seems to be whether or not WT theology is accurate concerning these events.
I'm not so much concerned to know whether some other belief system has all the correct answers because I don't believe there is ANY belief system that has the complete Truth. What bugs me is that we JW's through the WTS insist to be God's exclusive channel for Truth. Basically we are given the impression if we JW's don't know something spiritual certainly no one else knows better.
A little examination though is proving this to be false. I'm interested to know when will our WTS officially retract or prove this extraordinary claim.
Do you feel the WTS has knowledge over and above any other belief system?

Warmest greetings,
Martini.

Since so many of their published beliefs have proven to be wrong over the years I would have to answer no. I'm not trying to be harsh here but I am trying to be completely honest.

Well, you may be honest, but at least your not brutal. And your honesty seems to have a lot of others thinking the same way you do.

We have all been told to be quiet - warned to be quiet or have the label of apostate stamped on our foreheads - and for years we have been.

Because we were quiet - we didn't know that others existed just like us - and look! we're not weird!!!! Well, speaking for others, that is.

Weird? Well, I KNOW I'm weird.....but in a good way. LOL

I used to believe that the Society had the Truth, the Whole Truth, and nothing but the Truth; but after so many changes and flip-flops, I have honestly come to believe differently.

While the WTBTS may have a good message, I doubt very much that it is the ONLY way to approach God. I doubt that any religion has ALL the answers, although most of them claim to. I guess it's just a way to keep members.

The one thing I DO know is that we are all children of a loving Father. He has not abandoned us, even though all the religions of the world claim that He WILL abandon us if we don't abide by that particular religion's rules.

The more I think and act outside the box, the closer my relationship to Him becomes.

Hi
I think the same way than allo of you...
I figured out after some serious talks with elders, that the most important thing is to believe 100% to the fdS. This is the very important point.
Nobody ask, do you believe in Jesus or the holy sprirt, no, the question is, do you believe in the slave!!
I'm not allowed to talk to anybody in the meeting about my questions, in order to keep in contact with my family and friends.

I don't believe, the JW's are the only true religion anymore, since I found people in other religions, which have a stronger and much deeper relationship with god than the average witness has.

Dear mgm,

I have not attended a meeting in two months, Sundays, an occasional Thursday, for the previous 2 years. I now look with my 20/20 hindsight and realize I've been shuffling my feet for a while.

I told some close (elder) friends of mine that I wanted to take some time and think about this. I told him I did not dedicate myself to a corporation - I dedicated myself to Jehovah. He has not brought up religion since to me.

His wife (after she invited me to her KH meetings) just put up her hand and said, "Didn't mean to pry, closed subject." She dismissed the subject then and never has encouraged me since. Not that I was looking for encouragement, but, I swear, you could see the veil come over her facial features when I said I wanted to think about this situation.

Two other brothers I know well, have approached me. I just said I was taking time to really try to study my religion - just as we teach others to do.

Maaaaannnnn! Was I given a strong discourse (fingers pointings and everything) on the only way to life was the meetings. I MUST get back to the meetings - even if I didn't agree - that's the only way Jehovah would ever accept me. I said I wanted to do what was conscientiously right. The poor brother, confused, told me not to follow my conscience - just get back to the meetings! I told him, you don't mean that. And he said, well, if your conscience is made wrong, what else can you do but go to the meetings?

When one of the brothers (two different visits)couldn't answer my questions - Bible based - he said jokingly that I studied too much and was missing the point - life was at the meetings.
I brought up the scripture "where two or more are gathered in your name, your spirit is there." Any place could be a meeting - we're looking for his spirit - not a building.

His answer was: Don't you go thinking that two or more applies to you and your husband (I really never had thought of that until he said it)- and it doesn't mean just a group of people studying for themselves. It means the meetings in the Kingdom Hall, period.

He also referred to the big shuffle in Bethel in 1980 as "The Apostasy of 1980." Has anybody else heard a title penned to this event? I haven't.

waiting
I have heard about the Great Apsostacy. It involved the disfellowshipping of Fred Franz's than president nephew Ray.
Ray a member of the GB wrote a book after realising the dates the Society used regarding 506BC and the of presence of Jesus in 1914 were incorrect. Ray also prompts the reader to question a few other JW doctrines.
One thing to note Ray never labels them or accuses them in a malicous or vindictive way. The GB were frightened of the impact of this publiction and hence went on a witch hunt throughout Bethel. They also had talks given at all the major assemblies on apostacy and its evilness. They never mentioned names as the speaker tends to do but you could tell it was warnning the brothers not to look at this book or else.
When you think about it thats what they are trying to do with the net. They don't want us to question too much because what we would find out would expose some mistakes they have made.

Randy Watters who was at Bethel during this time has heaps of information on the subject.
Here is the url

www.freeminds.org

I am also not very good with dates I would like to correct my statement regarding the mistakes in dating the Ray Franz found. The fall of Jeruselum according to the society 576bc to secular scholars dating 539 bc.

Hello Maxee,

Thanks for the infor. - I have read about Ray Franz and Randy Watters.

I just didn't know that JW now have a title for what happened. Rather like The Hurricane of 1915 or The Tornado of the Century, etc.

We just gotta title everything, huh?

Maxee, the official date for the fall of Jerusalem ist the year 587 B.C.. The year 539 B.C. is accepted from the WTS and "the world". But only the WTS date the fall of Jerusalem to the year 607 B.C., which is against all the known facts of history.

I can recommend to read the two books of Ramond Franz warmly, since you get an idea, how things are handled in Bethel. The first book is titled: "crisis of concience" , the second: "the way to cristian freedom"

It should be a must to read this books for every witness.

Waiting,

Your experience sounds quite similar to where I am right now. I'm trying to step back and get as much of an unbiased perspective on things, and certain ones are making it quite difficult to do so. Apparently I cannot have God's spirit if I'm not at my meetings.

One has to almost be a lawyer to use the "grounds of conscience" argument while not showing disagreement with the organization. I just need a break or I think I'll lose my sanity.

I can't believe even after explaining all my doubts/concerns they keep assigning me talks and other assignments in the hall. I've got to buy a house and move away I think.

Pathofthorns

Path, your situation sounds very familiar.

Good brother Martini, Luke 22:21 "But, look! the hand of my betrayer is with me at the table.