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2012 Annual Meeting: MORE notes...

    Ultimate Reality posted Mon, 08 Oct 2012 23:51:26 GMT(10/8/2012)

    Post 213 of 218
    Joined 1/23/2008

    From a reliable source...provides further confirmation on the GB's new status. These are from the Symposium part on the New Light.

    Jeoff Jackson - How Is Spiritual Food Prepared?

    2 principles; 1: Dan12:4 Always make continuous, careful search. 2:. 1Co r4:6, 'don't go beyond the things that are written'. Where do the ideas come from(always asked). There is no hole in the ceiling of the GB conference room! Receive reports from branchs, Zone, and other travelling overseers. Also the GB are constantly reading the bible personally. Others assist in writing. All editorial work is 'closely supervised' by GB. All GB read 2 or 3 times all the material before it is dispensed. Key Point- When an individual GB member submits an article, it is not spiritual food until it undergoes at least 70 steps. [In a later talk by Bro. Splane, he admitted that some of his articles after submission needed 'life support and some didn't make it'].Thereby no one member of GB can influence matters on his own. What if question about current understanding of a truth? GB assign brothers to research, then GB reconsider, pray about it. "No yes men on the GB". Robust discussion. "If GB can't all agree, matter put on hold. Some things are put on hold for years, until ALL are moved by HS!!" [Wonder what other things are in the 'pending file'. One brother at HQ said to me afterwards that there are quite a few! Who knows how long this knew thought on Matt24 was in the pending file??] Need to show courage to change our understanding of long held, sometime cherished beliefs. EG brothers with Xmas, cross and birthdays. Keep in mind that the truth hasn't changed, only our understanding of it!

    Gerrit Losch- Which Channel Is Jehovah Using?

    Mt 24:45-47 and Lu 12, uses the definite article tho' with reference to F&DS. Therefore is composite and does not apply to individual anointed ones nor to Gc. Other references in bible refer to individuals being slaves and stewards, but not THE slave/steward. Old thought was that F&DS were anointed at any given time from 33CE to now. However through the middle ages, no distinct knowledge as to who they were. Also because at 33 there were no GC we believed the 'domestics' had to be individual anointed. Is the F&DS 1900 yrs old? No! [The lecture to Gilead and branch schools about this has now been deleted].When you look at the context of Matt 24 all the events described are in the last days and the GT. The 'coming' referred to is the GT. Hence the F&DS only appeared and was appointed as such in the last days!

    Do all the anointed share in providing food? - No! Reference to 'food' refers to preparing and originating spiritual food. The GB only, oversees spir feeding. Can't apply to anointed sisters living thousands of miles away. Besides, Bethel does not have a list of all anointed in world, only those in special fulltime service. Back in jerusalem the GB wouldn't have consulted with all the anointed living in various places throughout the Roman empire!

    Guy Pearce- When Will These Things Be?

    In view of Dan 12:4, expect changes in thinking! F&DS come into existence after 1914. Wheat and Weeds parable indicates be no slave class to dispense food (only be individual anointed ones who maintained their faith). The work of Russell & associates like that of the messenger in Ma13:1. But they not part of slave class. Old thought of messenger was 1914-18 based on jC cleaning temple 3 yrs after his anointing. However the bible lists 2 accounts of jC cleansing - one at the start and one at the end of his ministry. Hence the cleansing of God's people is ongoing. Mt 24:30,42,44 all refer to je's future 'coming' in judgment at the GT. Therefore the next verses that refer to the appointment of the F&DS is at - 1919 not 33ce!

    Samuel Herd - Feeding ... ?

    Pattern established with 'feeding' by je. Matt 14:14-21, .....YOU give them something to eat..." Same in later account in MT15:36. Pattern - jC to disciples to crowds. Lesson - jesus always fed the Many thru the Few! jesus always chose the few. He chose the 12 apostles, were imperfect. He was grooming them for a future office of oversight. Later used these men to serve as GB. Later used other men, Act 16:4,5. Blessed arrangement, till death of apostles who acted as a 'restraint'. Then apostasy flourished. During that time, no consistent channel existed. Only changed after 1914 when the 'growing season' ended. Now the 'harvest' time needed an organized channel to do the feeding. However, the same pattern - jC would feed the many thru the few!

    Stephen Lett - Who Really Is the F&D Slave?

    Question suggests that there would be a legitimate desire to know as to many confusing options. At 33CE no one would have need to raise the question, the answer was beyond doubt. There was simply a singular Christian entity that was performing miraculous signs and distributing spir food. However, from 1914 onwards, there were many imitation Christians. Who then would prove to be the F&D Slave?- Now the question was valid even crucial! Those within priestly class would prove to dispense food. Not all anointed are F&DS. New thought as to: F&DS - Small group of anointed Christians, living at Head Quarters, during Christ's presence, who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritualfood. Note- Individual members are not F&DS. Only when they work as a body are they such! Greek word is composite singular. Domestics - All who are fed spiritually. Originally from 1919 it was only anointed, later it includes the Great Crowd, also individual members of the GB. Belongings - All his belongings both heavenly and earthly. The verse does not limit the belongings to the earth. After the appointment of the F&DS in 1919, there would be a period of time to establish who is the slave class. Then they would be give ALL his belongings. This happens during the GT when the anointed go to heaven to receive their heavenly reward. Why does the verse seem to limit this to only the F&DS. It doesn't- jC was in this instance simply talking to the F&DS, hence the reference to them receiving 'ALL Belongings'. However by referring to such, he was not limiting the ALL Belongings to just the GB members, it was simply a case of who he was addressing at the time. Lu 22:28-30 is a promise to all faithful anointed.

    David Splane - What Does All This Mean? Matt24:45-7 has no first century application. Apostles were dispensing spiritual food, but not as a F&DS. Slave is not 1900 yrs old. Russell's time- F&DS was being formed / taking shape. Illus- M.S approaching eldership, may do much of the work of an elder, but is not an elder until the appointment. Similar to Russell and associates, they were doing a feeding work, but the appointment as F&DS was later. This new understanding now truly dignifies the GC and unites them with the GB, as ALL need to be fed!! Remember - jah & jC are the source ofthe food. Don't getto hung up on individual members of GB.

    Favourite saying of jeoff jackson- HI love coffee, I have my favourite cup. But ifthe cup gets broken- I won't stop drinking coffee"! If something happens to individual members of GB or they die - it won't stop us drinking at j's table.

    metatron posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:02:12 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 6287 of 7115
    Joined 4/7/2001

    What cultish idiocy! Why does a definite article (the) mean the F&D Slave is composite? Why complicate things? It's just rhetorical, in encourage individuals to examine themselves.

    More proof is found in Luke in which Jesus adds, 'but if THAT slave says 'my master delays coming'" - something an individual would do.

    metatron

    donuthole posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:19:29 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 742 of 801
    Joined 4/26/2009

    Wow. Just wow. I guess this further clears up that the implication is that the Governing Body is the Faithful & Discreet Slave instead of some nebulous group of brothers at Bethel preparing/dispensing spiritual food.

    Bobcat posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:20:31 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 314 of 1398
    Joined 3/25/2012

    UR:

    Thanks very much for the notes. Thats alot of typing.

    Talk about Amateur Hour at the Apollo! There is so mush disjointed logic to all of that.

    Of course, some of that could be from the note taker trying to catch points with little time to write.

    And, the "Greek word is composite singular"? What in hell's name . . .??? Sounds like a high-tech home built airplane from Macedonia.

    Ultimate Reality posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:22:51 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 214 of 218
    Joined 1/23/2008

    This makes an even bigger mess of Matthew 24, the Generation, and their continuing with a Parallel Dispensations model of interpretation. But it also means that their chronology based on 607 BCE + 2520 Years of Gentile Times = 1914 + the 1919 "appointment" will remain and become even more important once they put all this into print in the coming months.

    elderelite posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 00:50:47 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 3511 of 3229
    Joined 6/18/2010

    Ok the house got inspected in 1914 and he choose the slave in 1919... What the hell was he doing for almost 5 years?

    NOLAW posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 01:11:21 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 606 of 662
    Joined 2/5/2012

    Playing PUKEMAN?

    So:

    Sisters got the sack.

    Anointed got the sack.

    Great Crowd OBEY!

    The spimGB AS the FDS:

    stuckinamovement posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 01:55:42 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 688 of 755
    Joined 2/23/2010

    Holy crap ...... Belongings - All hisbelongings both heavenly and earthly

    this means that the angels in heaven are subject to the Governing Body?

    outsmartthesystem posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 02:06:59 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 981 of 1187
    Joined 5/19/2011

    Nice work UR. I have a judicial committee meeting coming up in three days (that I will be recording). I will be sure to ask the elders what they might think if such a scenario were to take place (all the aforementioned changes). My guess is that they will say such changes would be preposterous....having no idea that this info is on the horizonI

    donuthole posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 02:11:14 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 743 of 801
    Joined 4/26/2009

    @outsmarthesystem

    Pretend that is your private interpretation. Let them df you for apostasy. Come back later and say I told you so.

    All kidding aside, best of luck for your JC. They can be rough.

    cult classic posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 02:13:23 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 1656 of 1833
    Joined 4/4/2010
    "F&DS - Small group of anointed Christians, living at Head Quarters, during Christ's presence, who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing spiritualfood. Note- Individual members are not F&DS. Only when they work as a body are they such!"

    That is some bullshit right there! "living at Head Quarters"? They are feeling themselves way too much. And they have shut everyone else out... women, anointed, Russell and associates..... am I missing anyone? I guess they shut Jesus out long ago, so this is par for the course.

    eta: I'm missing the 1st century christians.

    yourmomma posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 04:14:17 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 918 of 1040
    Joined 11/26/2007

    so in addition to the angels belonging to them, are they also putting the gb higher than the apostles?

    M Billy the Ex-Bethelite posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 05:26:42 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 5544 of 6936
    Joined 11/29/2007

    Such double-talk...

    " Where do the ideas come from(always asked). There is no hole in the ceiling of the GB conference room! Receive reports from branchs, Zone, and other travelling overseers. Also the GB are constantly reading the bible personally. Others assist in writing. All editorial work is 'closely supervised' by GB "

    So here they are saying that their teachings aren't coming directly from Jehovah.

    "Remember - jah & jC are the source ofthe food. Don't getto hung up on individual members of GB."

    And here they are saying that their teachings are straight from Jehovah and Jesus.

    They're still playing their favorite tune, "We're Not Prophets, But You Sure as Sh!t Better Treat Us Like We Are!"

    M Billy the Ex-Bethelite posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 05:29:06 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 5545 of 6936
    Joined 11/29/2007

    "I guess they shut Jesus out long ago, so this is par for the course."

    New Light! In this illustration, the Master is Jehovah. Meaning Jesus is just part of the belongings over which the GB has been appointed!

    fedup posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:38:31 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 41 of 97
    Joined 5/23/2008

    Behold - The New FDS of 2012

    M yadda yadda 2 posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 11:08:55 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 1278 of 2527
    Joined 4/22/2008

    They are resting their laurels even more on 1914-1919 with this, but when you think about it they are undermining the whole 1914 chronology since it was invented by Russell and adventists before him, who they are now saying were not feeding spiritual food at the proper time as the FDS is now said to have not existed until 1919. The implication also is that Russell was not a true member of the anointed either, since he is said to have only fulfilled a John the baptist "messenger" role, and John the baptist was not anointed. C T Russell now appears to have been formally delinked from the organisation. Many JW's, specially the older ones, will balk at this.

    And they are also emphasising that every instance in the gospels that Jesus referred to his coming and arrival is in the future. So go figure how Matt 24:3, where the NWT questionably uses the word "presence" instead of coming, proves Jesus became king in 1914? How on earth can Jesus have become present in 1914 before his arrival and coming at the great tribulation? What utterly absurd, contradictory nonsense, a disgraceful abuse of Jesus words related to his own return.

    They are also contradictorily saying the GB is the only FDS today because the GB fulfills a very similar role to the apostles and older men in Jerusalem in the first century, yet they are saying no FDS existed in the first century. So they have sawn off the very branch they have just sat on!

    WTWizard posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:13:38 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 13888 of 14690
    Joined 5/10/2007

    That lengthy discussion about that the group of old fogeys dictates the rules that everyone else is supposed to abide by (and I am defining "old fogey" as a person that is intolerant of young people's attitudes and needs, regardless of actual age). This group of scumbags is who decide what is allowed, what is not, and under what circumstances. Do they want to attach another generation to the string of generations? Is playing video games going to be a disfellowshipping offense this year, or just a hounding offense? What about masturbation? Are they going to start disfellowshipping people for masturbation, and if so, under what circumstances? Are they going to invoke a zero-tolerance policy for anything that even resembles magic? Is entertainment going to be banned, and if so, what are the consequences?

    Personally, I don't see what is so damn spiritual about that. In fact, you are AVOIDING true spirituality. To advance spiritually, you need to have fun. Sex, including masturbation, is actually good for a person spiritually--and marriage is not needed (gay sex, for those who are naturally homosexual, is just as good as "straight" sex for natural heterosexuals). And since when is avoiding anything with a tiny sprinkling of magic conducive to spirituality? And while they are at it, they should be examining the true spiritual side of "worshiping the sun". They might find that Christmas, sun-worship and all, is actually positive for a soul. Would a loving god deprive his subjects of something like that? Would a loving god deprive his subjects of something that was even spiritually neutral, if it was so much fun?

    If Jehovah is going to pollute his table with so much monosodium glutamate and aspartame, I think I will stick to the table of Demons.

    Londo111 posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 14:30:13 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 779 of 2692
    Joined 11/9/2011

    So here they take direct responsibility for disseminating outright lies. If it goes through all these checks and articles are vetted this much, they have no excuse.

    They almost seem to say that it is not a 2/3 rd majority but the votes need to be 100%. This is bureaucracy at its worst. No matter what an individual's conscience says, no matter their knowledge of the subject, they are bound by the Governing Body's teaching on a subject upon pain of everlasting death.

    It is good to be free.

    Sauerkraut posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:15:42 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 84 of 181
    Joined 7/16/2012

    ^Absolutely!

    wannabefree posted Tue, 09 Oct 2012 15:26:13 GMT(10/9/2012)

    Post 2320 of 2589
    Joined 4/5/2010
    Jeoff Jackson "... Some things are put on hold for years, until ALL are moved by HS!"

    until ALL are moved? UNTIL?

    Odd that God's Spirit doesn't move them as a united Faithful and Discreet Slave arrangement. It would seem that sometimes the spirit only moves some of them but apparently waits to move them all until a clearer understaning is ready to be received by the domestics.

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