Kingdom Hall remodel - scam

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    finallysomepride posted Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:46:00 GMT(3/9/2012)

    Post 2653 of 2895
    Joined 7/22/2009

    bookmarked

    now i know why i sttopped donating 10 years b4 i finally left

    outsmartthesystem posted Fri, 09 Mar 2012 13:54:00 GMT(3/9/2012)

    Post 416 of 1187
    Joined 5/19/2011

    I have a question. When a KH undergoes a renovation......does the local congregation ALWAYS sign the deed over to the society?

    Our local hall underwent a renovation 2 years ago. Does this mean that the society owns the KH?

    oppostate posted Fri, 09 Mar 2012 14:29:00 GMT(3/9/2012)

    Post 122 of 447
    Joined 11/18/2009

    Our local hall underwent a renovation 2 years ago. Does this mean that the society owns the KH?

    It's a bit technical but this is what goes on:

    The congregation gets a loan from the WTS's Kingdom Hall building fund to which all congregations contribute.

    As part of the deal the congregation accepts that the RBC will take over the remodeling.

    Also if there isn't a phrase in the congregation holding ownership of the KH that the WTS gets the goods if the congregation disolves or merges then the congregations incorporation charter gets ammended accordingly.

    The congregation's incorporation bylaws must state that the officers of the incorporated congregation are those persons currently serving as elders in the congregation, and the WTS is the one who appoints elders to serve in the congregation.

    One benefit to the WTS is that the actual value of the building and property is tied up in the local congregation's incorporation until they decide they want to liquidate it.

    And the best part is that it doesn't cost the WTS a single cent, everything resulted from donations, yet they have ultimate ownership whenever it suits them.

    DesirousOfChange posted Fri, 09 Mar 2012 16:27:00 GMT(3/9/2012)

    Post 1519 of 5128
    Joined 1/13/2011

    They are preparing for the 'massive apostasy'! Better get hold of the KHs before they turn out apostate so they can sell them.

    WOW! This prevents the members of a Cong from seceding from the JW Organization and keeping their KH.

    If they decide to leave, they start over with nothing.

    Doc

    M wha happened? posted Fri, 09 Mar 2012 17:59:00 GMT(3/9/2012)

    Post 6257 of 10466
    Joined 10/2/2004

    Wifey and I were talking about KH rebulids and I introduced this topic to her. I said here's the scenario. We own our home. It needs work and we have no money, but, we have equity. So we go to the bank. The bank says, "Here's x amount of money, at x% rate, for x amount of years. In a normal world, the "lendor" would put a lein on the property so that if u don't pay it back, they can sell your home, or, if u sell your home before u pay them back, they will get paid in full from the sales proceeds." That's normal.

    Then I told her. "What the Society adds to that is u also hand over all ownership of the property. So now, you are paying back a loan on a property, that you no longer own. So in the end they have your money and your property."

    Even Ms Wifey in denial saw through that crap

    F wannaexit posted Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:35:00 GMT(3/9/2012)

    Post 1253 of 1658
    Joined 11/22/2002

    What happened? what a good analogy

    Scott77 posted Sat, 10 Mar 2012 02:32:00 GMT(3/10/2012)

    Post 1629 of 3429
    Joined 4/3/2009

    May be this is the reason why the Society discourages its adherants from persueing higher education that would liberate them from the Watchtower education. Most JWs are high school graduates who are content with their present status. I am not surprised that many end up being controlled. They cannot think logically.

    Scott77

    M Momma-Tossed-Me posted Sat, 10 Mar 2012 15:55:00 GMT(3/10/2012)

    Post 328 of 550
    Joined 7/11/2008

    I know for a fact that the local hall in my area is paying 3% interest. Probably a long term loan.

    MTM

    oppostate posted Tue, 13 Mar 2012 15:48:00 GMT(3/13/2012)

    Post 123 of 447
    Joined 11/18/2009

    From DO Brown W. Payne at last CA in Natick, MA.

    "The work is on-going, we're not looking back, there's Kingdom Halls to renovate, others to sell and to buy new ones"

    "Look at what brothers can accomplish when we work together, look at this beautiful Assembly Hall"

    His high pitched delivery gave me the impression of listening to a Realtor on too much caffeine. He went on telling about Patterson and Upstate NY, mentioning expansion in Branches around the world.

    Then came the accusations. If you call into question the organization's progress you're taking Jehovah's name in vain.

    And the doozy...

    Everyone who desires a higher education degree is seeking prominence for their own name.

    Why not rather do as a young sister did, say no to a full scholarship to a worldly education and pioneer, then quoted the sister saying how happy she is as a pioneed and volunteer at RBC projects working for the Kingdom's interests, by helping in the organization's increase.

    We too should be more concerned about the sanctification of Jehovah's name and not our own.

    There's much to be done and keep busy with. There's no time to waste in worldly pursuits.

    -----------------------------

    The costs for this weekend circuit assembly at this "beautiful assembly hall" were $18,000+

    Whatever was left over from last CA, we were told, the elders had voted, and as is the custom, decided that all funds left over would be sent into the Branch for the Worldwide Work: $13,000+

    BTW, Bro. Brown W. Payne reminded us that every Friday before a CA or Special Day, we can volunteer to clean the Assembly Hall so that all the friend can enjoy this "beautiful assembly hall", and this is a work that very much needs to be done and brings praise to God. Aren't we thankful to be able to meet in such a "beautiful assembly hall"? (Unanimous applause from the appreciative "friends").

    ----------------------------

    I was thinking right about this time that maybe the mult-imillion Assembly Hall in Barcelona, Spain which was just sold to the United Church of Christ perhaps not as "beautiful" maybe?

    jworld posted Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:33:00 GMT(3/13/2012)

    Post 67 of 92
    Joined 3/29/2011

    I've heard of so many halls that had to be remodeled or torn down because they were built so awfully. Several halls had mold problems. I suppose they have gotten better with the "quick build" technique but it still seems to be a shoddy way to construct a building.

    Also in my area, there has been a large increase in the number of KH's being sold. I have no idea where the congregations go since these halls are in the middle of the city (so do they end up driving across town to a larger Multiplex hall?).

    M Momma-Tossed-Me posted Tue, 13 Mar 2012 16:38:00 GMT(3/13/2012)

    Post 335 of 550
    Joined 7/11/2008

    yes mold problems are or were a huge problem with those quick build KM's

    neverscreamagain posted Tue, 13 Mar 2012 17:25:00 GMT(3/13/2012)

    Post 26 of 256
    Joined 2/24/2012

    MTM: Having conracted Mold remediation repair in the past I know that it can be very lucrative. When this is done at a KH, with Brothers volunteering their services, what happens with the surplus funds. High profit margins with mold remediation and emergency repair. Most of detailed billing is labor. I am assuming that private insurance companies paid the claims?

    hoser posted Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:08:00 GMT(3/13/2012)

    Post 259 of 1600
    Joined 1/26/2010

    the RBC is so controlling that pretty soon we won't be able to change a light bulb without their permission.

    this is why I will never serve as an elder again. We are told what needs to be done. how to do it. but if something goes wrong or overbudget, which it always does it ultimately comes out of our pockects/

    if the AC quits in the middle of summer we can't just phone the AC repair company and pay the bill. it has to go through the head cheese of the RBC and he finds a "brother" to do the work. if we didn't do this the CO would find out on his next visit and give us shit at the meeting.

    an elder actually puts a lot on the line financially when he is signing for the whole congregation but he has no choice in the matter other than stepping down.

    another scam is remodling kingdom halls for congregations that will be merged in a year or two. the only reason that they do this is to give the publishers a sense of false hope that somehow MTS brothers will be sent to the hall. (they always send these by twos so they can spy on each other) and they have a newly renovated building to sell.

    need a new microphone? can't go to best buy or radio shack and pick one up. gotta go through the RBC and pay some clown who knows f*** all about sound systems to sell the congregation a piece of shit microphone for twice the price that they sell at the big box stores

    it's a scam

    F Dagney posted Tue, 13 Mar 2012 19:07:00 GMT(3/13/2012)

    Post 3394 of 4687
    Joined 8/14/2006

    I have a JW friend that is an inspector for the state in a certain phase of construction, structural. He was part of one of the assembly hall remodels a few years ago. He is still complaining about the negligence on the job. He can tell you exactly what the weak points are of the construction and what is going to happen in what period of time. He's been schooled in his line of work but nothing can overrule a volunteer RBC overseer.

    This has turned out to be a very interesting thread. My business mind completely understands these decisions by the corporation. The corporation's goal is to continue to exist and all decisions are made in its best interest...it is delusional to think it is anything other than that. Having control gives it the best means to succeed.

    I know they have to exert the pressure on the "flock" to maintain control...but it just angers me. There are so many facets to this scam, the control, the money...but what I find most despicable is the scam on the people. The implied grandiose-ness of the work keeps people on a never ending cycle of self flagellation to keep up with everything, with the hope of gaining approval and avoiding "destruction" thus losing out of "everlasting life" (TM) due to being deemed "less than whole souled" in their "service." (all TM's by WTBS...) Grrrr.

    Juan Viejo2 posted Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:37:00 GMT(3/13/2012)

    Post 561 of 922
    Joined 6/17/2009

    Here is an article that explains how KH upgrades and builds were done in the past. http://ex-jw.com/kingdom-halls-who-owns-them

    Menlo Park (CA) Kingdom Hall is a classic example of how the Watchtower HQ and the local RBCs work together to force upgrades and rebuilds on local congregations. The Watchtower makes sure that any upgrade or new construction is recorded as belonging to the corporation, not the local congregation.

    Whether the Watchtower charges interest or not isn't important. The local brothers will not only pay for their new KH at a higher cost than could be acquired locally (in spite of mostly free labor), but the locals will also be paying monthly maintenance fees forever + their group donations for "the worldwide building work."

    The real question is what does the WT use their donations (aside from KH payments) for? The reality is that the WT gets money from several different pools from every KH and Circuit, but returns little or none of it back to the local congregations.

    What a scam! Ask for donations AND payments - and then take ownership of the land and building when everything is complete.

    JV

    M Momma-Tossed-Me posted Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:36:00 GMT(3/14/2012)

    Post 336 of 550
    Joined 7/11/2008

    NeverScreamAgain: This goes right along with this topic. They live the mold for say 5-10 years then remodel the WHOLE HALL! Take it down to the studs and spray with a treating solution then put it back together with materials purachsed through the RBC with full kick backs to who else...the WTBTS.

    Mold is a blessing from God to the borg.

    MTM

    baltar447 posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 02:50:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

    Post 1112 of 2349
    Joined 3/11/2006

    bttt.

    This is too good a thread had to bump.

    Aussie Oz posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 05:07:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

    Post 2927 of 3755
    Joined 11/12/2009

    In my opinion, JWs who are in the building game are all crooks.

    If i hired a tradesman and found he was one i would kick his arse to the curb real quick.

    I wonder if one day the Wt will just cash in all its halls and disband the 'religion', after all, they must be making far more $$$ from all the real estate and investments they have...

    Oz

    zeb posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:35:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

    Post 37 of 1715
    Joined 11/1/2011

    This is most curious. The KH i formerly attended is also up ffor a remodellling of the toilets.

    Why? I was real curious and was told the over seer said they needed doing.? There is nothing wrong with them its a waste of money. The tiling is fine the walls are fine and the pedestals are fine with no cracks or stains.

    Now i understand why its being done. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    from Australia

    zeb posted Tue, 20 Mar 2012 07:54:00 GMT(3/20/2012)

    Post 38 of 1715
    Joined 11/1/2011

    This is all new to me.

    I volunteered to work on quick builds and was turned down anonymously flat. "Does this person meet..." etc and a big biroed "NO" in the middle of that part of the form with no explanation as to why or by whom. "Behold the I see then in a glass darkly but now with light". Perhaps they didnt want me around as i might have asked the awkward questions about money, loans etc.

    So where does all this $$$ get them? They obviously dont believe the systems end is SOO close or why would they be stockpiling money or is there so many 'silent lambs' to pay off that they need to boost the dollar stockpile?

    The day will come when they are attacked by the govts of the world but it wont be because they venerate Christ Jesus or do fine Christian works or because of the name of God. It will be because of these money grubbing ways and all the abused children.

    In a former job I have been with folk as they died. Those gentle folk with a clear conscience slipped away peacefully. Those who spent their lives manipulating others who were selfish demanding deceptive and arrogant had a death that was not pleasant at all.

    Take it on board 'faithful and discreet slave'.

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