I am speechless over the latest tactic to get people to Pioneer!


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    iclone posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:02:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 52 of 111
    Joined 9/29/2011

    Last night I reluctantly attended the meeting. I don't go very often but as you have seen in previous posts, I go occasionally to keep peace with my wife. Last night this elder hands me two Auxiliary Pioneer Forms with mine and my wife’s name filled in already. (BTW the app was preprinted with a laser printer so they put allot of thought into this scam) I asked him, "What is this?" He replied that because so many pioneered last year that the BOE decided to make it easier by filling them in for everyone and whoever wants to pioneer can just sign it, we are anxious to read off as many names as we can during the Service Meeting tonight. (BARF)

    I handed the forms back to him without saying a word. He just stood there with a stunned look on his face. During the meeting I was brewing in anger, my wife did manage to calm me down and talked me out of leaving. I am glad I did stay as you will see.

    After the meeting he apologized if he offended me in any way. I told him that there is far too much emphasis on getting people to put in their; what I call “T HE DIRTY THIRTY” no matter what! (he actually chuckled) I then quoted 2 Cor 9:7 in part where it says that each of us would do what is in our heart not..., then I said "should I finish the scripture or should you?" He just looked puzzled. I then continued...”not grudgingly or under compulsion, this method you guys are using is absolutely disgusting; talk about a cheesy ploy to get the publishers to sign this form…shame on you guys. What is this, some sort of contest between other congregations?”

    He did agree with me that I made some good points and that perhaps they were too hasty and thanked me for my candor. He is one of the more humble elders that I got along with very well when I served. I wonder if this was concocted by the BOE or if this is a directive from the branch or maybe an overzealous CO? In any event I found the whole thing absolutely shameless!

    cofty posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:05:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 2546 of 13930
    Joined 12/19/2009

    Disgraceful! Well done for having your say.

    Must be a CO visit due soon!

    LostGeneration posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:06:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 1200 of 3462
    Joined 11/24/2009

    Haven't heard of that technique in my area! That's a hell of a lot of pressure to put on some people, especially those working full time.

    If your feeling evil, you might point them to last years annual report, which show a big increase in hours but a large decrease in baptisms. Imply that their "methods" might not be working too well!

    LostGeneration posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:13:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 1201 of 3462
    Joined 11/24/2009

    decided to make it easier by filling them in for everyone and whoever wants to pioneer can just sign it

    Just re-read that and started laughing out loud at their excuse. Make it easier? Because writing your name is so difficult, right?

    Definitely an arm-twisting plot in your congo. Glad you set him straight.

    Ding posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:19:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 3089 of 5067
    Joined 8/27/2010

    What did your wife think of the tactic?

    Maybe it will open her eyes to what the organization is really like.

    M RULES & REGULATIONS posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:24:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 461 of 528
    Joined 2/24/2006


    You stated: '' I don't go very often"

    How can they ask you to Auxiliary Pioneer if you miss meetings? I always thought that meeting attendance was one of the prerequisites!

    No Room For George posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:29:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 2151 of 1748
    Joined 4/25/2011

    Iclone, you beat me to it. I was gonna do a thread on this either later tonight or early tommorrow morning. Getting ready to attend the meeting right now and we'll have that same part tonight. The pressure is definately gonna be on for some folks, especially after they read the list of all the ones who've signed up, and for certain people if their name isn't read off, it could bring some unwanted attention their way.

    By the way, perfect application of 2 Cor 9:7. To be fair, the WT last year in one of the KMs stated that they're not trying to pressure people and that people shouldn't view their encouragement within the literature as such, but rather view it as people cheering from the sidelines. How genuine that was supposed to be, I'll leave it up to you. Me personally though, as I've said in the past, and in harmony with a former classic poster's name, this whole Dirty Thirty Hour initiative...........Its a Cull without the T.

    One last thing, the fact that someone can be an auxilliary pioneer for one special month of the year and only have get 60% of the required hours to typically qualify for auxilliary pioneering, shows just how trivial pioneering is. For one thing, it's going beyond what's written as we don't know how much time Jesus, Paul, Peter, Barnabus, or anybody else spent preaching. To have some religious book publishing company on steroids pressuring people to strive towards some imaginary bar, is going beyond even beyond what's written.

    iclone posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:42:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 53 of 111
    Joined 9/29/2011

    Rules and Regulations...my thoughts exactly, I am not exemplary by any means. I guess once it is signed it goes to the Service Committee Tribunal and they decide if your name is worthy to be read from the coveted platform.

    Ding…my wife said it was complete BS! She is slowly seeing the organization for what it is, like I said before her entire social circle revolves around the congregation but things are definitely improving. Slow and steady.

    NRFG…I agree with you man. BTW I did discuss my report or lack thereof with our SO as he was puzzled over my lack of activity and went on a rant about reports, going as far as saying the bible set a precedent for compiling reports. I told him the only record reported in the bible was the number of individuals baptized! Show me anywhere in the bible in any translation where the emphasis was on the hours, rv’s etc. not to mention recording placements of literature all the forgoing is the emphasis of the WT not the number of individuals baptised. I also asked him why the WT does not put in print the number of individuals DF’d , because if they are going to include everything else this would also be a relevant statistic. Have you ever read a financial statement where the business losses or write offs were excluded? I think not!

    F rebel8 posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:48:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 8366 of 10127
    Joined 1/13/2005

    I always thought that meeting attendance was one of the prerequisites!

    In my case, field service was not a prerequisite of being a regular pioneer. lol

    They just put and kept me on the books so they could say they had a reg pio. I never made the 90 hours requirement, not once IIRC.

    iclone posted Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:57:00 GMT(2/23/2012)

    Post 54 of 111
    Joined 9/29/2011

    It is also worth mentioning that although my wife has consistently pioneered in years past including last year, she is NOT going to pioneer this year! On the drive home from the meeting as we were discussing my conversation with this elder and their tactics and she just came out and said she is not going to pioneer. You have no idea how happy that made me when she uttered those words.

    NewChapter posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:01:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 6306 of 11807
    Joined 1/25/2011

    Are you marked as inactive or irregular? If not, I think the requirement is simply that you have been regular for 6 months. So if you've been turning in time ever month, meeting attendance is more subjective. Some elders may be hesitant, but clearly your elders just want the numbers and the announcement.


    Ding posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:05:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 3091 of 5067
    Joined 8/27/2010
    It is also worth mentioning that although my wife has consistently pioneered in years past including last year, she is NOT going to pioneer this year! On the drive home from the meeting as we were discussing my conversation with this elder and their tactics and she just came out and said she is not going to pioneer. You have no idea how happy that made me when she uttered those words.

    Be sure not to rub it in or have an "I told you so" attitude or it will drive her back deeper into the borg.


    Just support her in her expressions of dissatisfaction without gilding the lily.

    breakfast of champions posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:16:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 1184 of 4138
    Joined 5/30/2011

    ICLONE - that is seriously fucked up! I would chanllenge that elder to find ONE SINGLE PERSON in the month of March in the door to door ministry who progresses to baptism within a year. After he accomplishes that with his thirty hours, then sign up.

    Never gonna happen. . .

    M wha happened? posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:38:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 5995 of 10423
    Joined 10/2/2004

    This was common in a congregation I attended years ago. The difference was when u declined, it was a guaranteed mark. Don't expect any priviledges. I remember my ex FIL, (Then PO), stating that as a man in this organization, they can call u up for anything. Commenting, duties aroud the hall, (cleaning), or in this case pioneering.

    Disillusioned Lost-Lamb posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:42:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 56 of 1159
    Joined 2/3/2012

    I too agree filling in the information was a rather sleazy guilt trip.

    This "let's fake pioneering" scheme is all around nauseating. What’s revolting about this “special” (dis)service is it’s always conveniently offered around the memorial campaign; basically not real door-to door, just a bunch of people out in droves pushing tracts in doors. So now we have fake auxiliary pioneering and fake service. NICE! what’s next, faux worship? Just say you did it and it’s done, no real effort involved. Think about it, the tract campaigns have gotten more and more frequent, and now lowered requirements; looks like the $ociety’s really working overtime to dumb things down. Hmm reminds me of another entity who became more lax so as to gain members, what do JWs call it again? Oh yeah Christendom!

    Disillusioned Lost-Lamb posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:47:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 57 of 1159
    Joined 2/3/2012

    @wha happened?: Every meeting I’ve been to since the push started I’ve had one of these wicked little forms shoved in my face, when I refuse, the elderberry gives me a shame on you look. I guess there’s nothin’ like good old-fashioned guilt to motivate someone.

    Sic Semper Tyrannis posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 03:06:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 167 of 376
    Joined 11/21/2011

    Man, you just did what a lot of us wish we had the guts to do. You stood up to him and didn't flinch. I probably would have just taken the papers and tossed them later. Thanks for sharing. You brought a smile to my face.

    M wha happened? posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:20:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 5997 of 10423
    Joined 10/2/2004

    DLL, sorry to hear u still have to endure meetings

    shepherd posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 05:31:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 331 of 364
    Joined 10/21/2010

    It was a dirty pressure tactic. I also believed that announcing names from the platform was unscriptural. They not only draw attention to the individuals but do it BEFORE they have even completed an hour. One of the reasons I became a regular pioneer was because I had instructed the elders not to read out my name each month and they complied until a CO ordered them to do it. By going regular I could break the CO's demand. In time I became convinced that even putting in a named report was unscriptural so I would do it without putting my name on it (since they claimed they only needed it for stats). As you can imagine that caused a stir too (if it is a sacrificial gift as they claim then the Bible instructs that it remain private, so private in fact the left hand is not supposed to know what the right hand is doing). That, and seeing how the CO's and other regular pioneers would mock the rest of the congregation in our private pioneer meetings, was all part of my realization the WT did not represent God at all.

    M steve2 posted Fri, 24 Feb 2012 06:15:00 GMT(2/24/2012)

    Post 4288 of 8794
    Joined 10/31/2004

    Iclone, give the elder credit for behaving in a relatively humble manner in accepting your courageously negative feedback - and he even apologized for offending you! On that basis alone, that elder acquaintance of yours is an exceptionally rare excellent example of a true shepherd.


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