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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-01-2012 WT Study (OWN UNDERSTANDING)

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    F blondie posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 17:51:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

    Post 33124 of 37442
    Joined 5/28/2001

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 01-01-2012 WT Study (NOVEMBER 15, 2011, pages 6-10)(OWN UNDERSTANDING)

    Review comments will be headed by COMMENTS

    WT material from today's WT will be in black

    Quotes from other sources will headed by QUOTES

    w = Watchtower

    g = Awake

    jv = Proclaimers book

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    “DO NOT LEAN UPON YOUR

    OWN UNDERSTANDING”

    “Trust in Jehovah with all your heart and do not lean

    upon your own understanding.”—PROV. 3:5

    OPENING COMMENTS

    How did God convey his ideas to Moses, Joshua, Hezekiah, Hannah?

    START OF ARTICLE

    1, 2. (a) What situations may confront us?

    (b) When dealing with distress, making a decision,

    or resisting a temptation, whom should we lean

    upon, and why?

    CYNTHIA’S* employer has already shut

    down portions of his company and has

    laid off several employees. Cynthia feels that

    she will be the next to be let go. What will she

    do if she loses her job? How will she pay her

    bills? A Christian sister named Pamela wants

    to move where the need for Kingdom proclaimers

    is greater, but should she? A young

    man named Samuel has a concern of another

    sort. He was exposed to pornography at an

    early age. Now in his 20’s, Samuel has a

    strong temptation to go back to that habit.

    How can he resist the pull?

    *Names have been changed.

    COMMENTS

    So Cynthia does not have unemployment insurance available…all 50 US states have such a program, what about other countries? Where I have lived, the federal and state governments have programs to train and place people in jobs teaching them how to upgrade their resume and be assigned a job counselor. Is the congregation going to pay her way…hardly…the elders are told to point such jws to government programs…where is God? Will elders point their members to food banks, used clothing stores, offer them a job? In the end it is human governments that help them not God or the congregation.

    I suggest Pamela visit the area on vacation…how many on JWN found that things did not add up as advertised, including Bethel?

    So was Samuel forced to look at this or was it his choice; was he a 5 year old and then this is called sexual abuse?

    2 Whom do you lean upon when facing

    distressing situations, making important decisions,

    or resisting temptations? Do you rely

    solely on yourself, or do you “throw your

    burden upon Jehovah”? (Ps. 55:22) “The

    eyes of Jehovah are toward the righteous

    ones,” states the Bible, “and his ears are toward

    their cry for help.” (Ps. 34:15) How important

    it is, then, that we trust in Jehovah

    with all our heart and that we do not lean

    upon our own understanding!—Prov. 3:5.

    COMMENTS

    Trust in God = trusting those who call themselves representatives of God…is their source of “wisdom” anything more than is available to any jw, Bible, WT publications? Can you depend on someone’s experience or age (see later in article)?

    Trust in humans = the end is in 1914, 1925, 1940’s, 1975…….Did God tell men this?

    http://jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php

    What if jws had trusted in these statements in 1969 and 1974?

    "If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the "last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur."-Matt. 24:34. Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system offers. If you are in highschool and thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the way toward its finish, if not actually gone!" Awake!1969 May 22 p.15

    "Today there is a great crowd of people who are confident that a destruction of even greater magnitude is now imminent. The evidence is that Jesus' prophecy will shortly have a major fulfilment, upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many couples to decide not to have children at this time." Awake! 1974 Nov 8 p.11

    "Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end." Kingdom Ministry May 1974 p.3 How Are You Using Your Life?

    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1975.php

    3. (a) What does trusting in Jehovah involve?

    (b) Why may some be inclined to lean upon their

    own understanding?

    3 Trusting in Jehovah with a complete

    heart involves doing things his way, according

    to his will. Central to doing so is our

    continually approaching him in prayer and

    making heartfelt requests for his guidance.

    However, leaning completely upon Jehovah

    presents a challenge for many. For example, a

    Christian sister named Lynn admits, “Learning

    to put my complete confidence in Jehovah

    has been an ongoing struggle for me.”

    Why? “I have no relationship with my father,”

    she says, “and I have a mother who did

    not care for me emotionally or physically. So

    I very quickly learned to look after myself.”

    Lynn’s background made it difficult for her

    to trust anyone fully. Personal ability and

    success can also cause a person to be self reliant.

    Relying on his experience, an elder

    may begin to care for matters involving the

    congregation without first approaching God

    in prayer.

    COMMENTS

    I wonder what kind of relationship Lynn has with the males in the congregation? Can Lynn be confident that the congregation will fill her emotional and physical needs? Did they yours?

    First praying or reading the NWT, WT pubs, and finally going to an elder who opens up his elder’s manual later to find the answer? Several elders (now ex) told me they were told that this manual was the guide, not scriptures. The WTS interprets what the Bible means even to the elders.

    The elder’s manual reminds me of the Reasoning from the Scriptures book, which you can use and never open your bible because the WTS has included the scriptures that matter plus their explanation. No need to think.

    4. What will be discussed in this article?

    4 Jehovah expects us to make a sincere effort

    to live up to our prayers and to act in harmony

    with his will. How, then, can we

    balance throwing our cares on him with putting

    forth personal effort to resolve difficult

    problems? When it comes to making decisions,

    what caution must we exercise? Why is

    prayer important when we are trying to resist

    temptations? We will consider these questions

    by reflecting on Scriptural examples.

    COMMENTS

    His will = as explained by the WTS (remember 1914, 1925, 1975)

    Do we succeed because of prayer or because of our “personal effort”?

    “when…making decisions, what caution” making sure we never “stumble” any individual jw on the planet

    When in Distress

    5, 6. How did Hezekiah respond when he was

    threatened by the king of Assyria?

    5 Concerning King Hezekiah of Judah, the

    Bible says: “He kept sticking to Jehovah. He

    did not turn aside from following him, but

    he continued keeping his commandments

    that Jehovah had commanded Moses.” Yes,

    “in Jehovah the God of Israel he trusted.”

    (2 Ki. 18:5, 6) How did Hezekiah respond

    when King Sennacherib of Assyria

    sent his representatives—including Rabshakeh—

    to Jerusalem along with a heavy military

    force? The powerful Assyrian army had

    already seized a number of fortified cities of

    Judah, and Sennacherib had now set his eyes

    on Jerusalem. Hezekiah went to the house of

    Jehovah and began praying: “O Jehovah our

    God, save us, please, out of his hand, that

    all the kingdoms of the earth may know

    that you, O Jehovah, are God alone.”—2 Ki.

    19:14-19.

    COMMENTS

    OT example—Hezekiah

    Did Hezekiah obey or disobey his idolatrous father Ahaz? Did he follow the ones that claimed to be God’s anointed (Ahaz)? Or did he stick to what the Torah said? Didn’t he have to weigh what he was told about worship based on that?

    *** it-1p.1102 Hezekiah***

    When Hezekiah came to the throne the kingdom of Judah was under God’s disfavor, for Hezekiah’s father Ahaz had committed many detestable acts before Jehovah and had let the worship of false gods run unrestrained in Judah.

    6 Hezekiah acted in harmony with his

    prayer. Even before going up to the temple to

    pray, he instructed the people not to respond

    to Rabshakeh’s taunts. Hezekiah also

    sent a delegation to Isaiah the prophet, seeking

    his advice. (2 Ki.18:36; 19:1, 2) Hezekiah

    took steps that he could rightly take. On this

    occasion, he did not try to work out a solution that was

    out of harmony with Jehovah’s

    will by seeking support from Egypt or from

    neighboring nations. Rather than lean upon

    his own understanding, Hezekiah trusted in

    Jehovah. After Jehovah’s angel struck down

    185,000 of Sennacherib’s men, Sennacherib

    “pulled away” and returned to Nineveh.

    —2 Ki.19:35, 36.

    COMMENTS

    It is important to note that Isaiah’s words were not popular with those who claimed to be God’s representatives. Eventually, they executed him.

    So does God promise personal protection to jws today per the WTS?

    7. What comfort can we derive from the prayers of

    Hannah and Jonah?

    7 Hannah, the wife of the Levite Elkanah,

    also leaned upon Jehovah when she was in

    distress over not being able to bear a child.

    (1 Sam. 1:9-11, 18) The prophet Jonah was

    delivered from the belly of a great fish after

    he prayed: “Out of my distress I called out to

    Jehovah, and he proceeded to answer me.

    Out of the belly of Sheol I cried for help. You

    heard my voice.” (Jonah 2:1, 2, 10) How

    comforting it is to know that no matter how

    dire our situation is, we can call out to Jehovah with

    a “request for favor”!—Read Psalm

    55:1,16.

    COMMENTS

    OT example—Hannah

    Elkanah was not worried being without child because of Hannah’s being barren, he had another wife who had children. Barren women were seen without worth, perhaps being made so by God.

    OT example—Jonah

    Why didn’t God just give these individuals the power to endure like many jws are told by the elders; not to expect any change in the problem?

    What if Hannah had not had children, would God’s “purpose” have been affected; if Jonah had died, God could have sent someone else to warn the Ninevites.

    8, 9. What concerns were expressed in the prayers

    of Hezekiah, Hannah, and Jonah, and what do we

    learn from this?

    8 The examples of Hezekiah, Hannah, and

    Jonah also teach us a vital lesson about what

    we should not fail to remember as we pray

    while under duress. All three felt emotional

    pain when they were in sore straits. Yet,

    their prayers show that they were not concerned

    about just themselves and getting relief

    from their problems. God’s name, his

    worship, and the doing of his will were matters

    of utmost importance to them. Hezekiah

    was pained that reproach was being

    heaped upon Jehovah’s name. Hannah

    promised to give in service at the tabernacle

    in Shiloh the very son she had so desired.

    And Jonah said: “What I have vowed, I will

    pay.”—Jonah 2:9.

    COMMENTS

    “not concerned about themselves and getting relief from their problems. God’s name, his worship…utmost importance”

    Have you or were you told by the elders and others that your problem was not important unless God’s purpose would be affected?

    Perhaps they had this attitude:

    (James 2:16) . . .If a brother or a sister is in a naked state and lacking the food sufficient for the day, yet a certain one of YOU says to them: “Go in peace, keep warm and well fed,” but YOU do not give them the necessities for [their] body, of what benefit is it?

    9 When we pray for deliverance from a

    troublesome situation, it is wise to examine

    our motives. Are we concerned exclusively

    with getting relief from the problem, or do

    we keep Jehovah and his purpose in mind?

    Personal suffering can easily cause us to get

    so caught up in our own situation that concern

    over spiritual matters fades into the

    background. When praying to God for help,

    let us keep our mind focused on Jehovah,

    the sanctification of his name, and the vindication

    of his sovereignty. Doing so can

    help us to maintain a positive outlook even

    if the solution that we hope for fails to materialize.

    The answer to our prayers may be

    that we need to endure the situation with

    God’s help.—Read Isaiah 40:29; Philippians

    4:13.

    COMMENTS

    Examine our motives? Want relief from our problem! Would God’s purpose fail if pain and illness were relieved? Caught up in our own situation….should we instead TELL people to be warm and well fed but not help them, and if humans should help how much more should God.

    As you lay in agony with needles hooked up, should you feel guilty that you can’t get to the meetings that Sunday?

    THE ANSWER TO OUR PRAYERS MAY BE THAT WE NEED TO ENDURE THE SITUATION WITH GOD’S HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

    When Making Decisions

    10, 11. What did Jehoshaphat do when confronted

    with a situation that he did not know how to handle?

    10 How do you make weighty decisions in

    life? Do you perhaps decide first and then

    pray to Jehovah to bless the decision you

    have made? Consider what Jehoshaphat,

    king of Judah, did when the combined

    forces of the Moabites and the Ammonites

    came up against him to wage war. Judah was

    in no position to take a stand against them.

    What action was Jehoshaphat to take?

    COMMENTS

    Decide first then pray…negotiate with God like Abraham and Moses did?

    OT example—Jehoshaphat

    Do we exhaust all human solutions before praying like he did?

    Should jws expect miraculous deliverances? As a group—maybe; as individuals, no.

    11 “Jehoshaphat became afraid and set his

    face to search for Jehovah,” says the Bible.

    He declared a fast for all Judah and collected

    the people together “to inquire of Jehovah.”

    Then he stood up in the congregation of Judah

    and of Jerusalem and prayed. In part, he

    pleaded: “O our God, will you not execute

    judgment upon them? For in us there is no

    power before this large crowd that is coming

    against us; and we ourselves do not know

    what we ought to do, but our eyes are toward

    you.” The true God heard Jehoshaphat’s

    prayer and provided a miraculous

    deliverance. (2 Chron. 20:3-12, 17) When

    making decisions, especially those that may

    affect our spirituality, should we not rely on

    Jehovah rather than lean upon our own understanding?

    COMMENTS

    Where does it show that Jehoshaphat consulted God’s Word…fast and pray…how come jws don’t fast in their worship?

    12, 13. What example did King David set in making

    decisions?

    12 What should we do when confronted

    with situations that may seem easier to resolve—

    perhaps because past experience allows

    us to think of a solution quickly? An

    account involving King David provides insight

    in this regard. When the Amalekites

    raided the city of Ziklag, they carried off David’s

    wives and children as well as those of

    his men. David inquired of Jehovah, saying:

    “Shall I chase after this marauder band?”

    Jehovah replied: “Go in chase, for you will

    without fail overtake them, and you will

    without fail make a deliverance.” David

    complied, and he “got to deliver all that

    the Amalekites had taken.”—1 Sam. 30:7-9,

    18-20.

    COMMENTS

    OT example—David

    So we can’t rely on past experience, our own or others………….

    ***Jeremiah’s Day (2010) jrchap. 10pp.115-116 par.5***

    A third way those Jews could have sought Jehovah was by learning through their personal experiences and those of others . Not that they had to learn everything through trial and error, but they could have benefited from considering what they themselves had done in the past and how Jehovah viewed the way they had acted. If they had been observant, they could have understood how God viewed their conduct.—Prov. 17:10.

    I can see why jws have to research every time they consider a medical procedure because the “new light” comes along so often.

    How did God talk directly to David…through the ephod (Urim and Thummim). What is the ephod then and today (per WTS)?

    (1 Samuel 30:7-8) Hence David said to A·bi′a·thar the priest, the son of A·him′e·lech: “Do, please, bring the eph′od near to me.” And A·bi′a·thar came bringing the eph′od near to David. And David began to inquire of Jehovah, saying: “Shall I chase after this marauder band? Shall I overtake them?” At this he said to him: “Go in chase, for you will without fail overtake them, and you will without fail make a deliverance.”

    *** w09 6/1 p.27***

    It appears that the Urim and the Thummim were used in ancient Israel to discern Jehovah’s will in matters that concerned the nation or its leaders. These objects were entrusted to the high priest and were kept in the pouch of the “breastpiece of judgment.” (Exodus 28:15, 16, 30) Although the Scriptures never describe these objects or their exact method of use, different passages seem to imply that they were employed as lots that would result in either a “yes” answer, a “no” answer, or no answer at all from God.

    I wonder if the GB sit around tossing dice to decide doctrine and prophecy?

    Since in bible times only the high priest used this, and Jesus is the high priest, the GB do not qualify; Jewish tradition says it disappeared after the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians.

    13 Sometime after the Amalekite raid, the

    Philistines came up against Israel. David

    again inquired of Jehovah and received a

    clear answer. God said: “Go up, for I shall

    without fail give the Philistines into your

    hands.” (2 Sam. 5:18, 19) Shortly thereafter,

    the Philistines once more came up against

    David. What would he do this time? He

    could have reasoned: ‘I have faced a similar

    situation twice before. Let me go up against

    God’s enemies, as I did then.’ Or would David

    seek Jehovah’s direction? David did not

    rely on his past experience. He again went to

    Jehovah in prayer. How glad he must have

    been that he did! The instructions he received

    this time were different. (2 Sam. 5:22,

    23) When faced with a familiar situation or

    problem, we must exercise caution that we

    do not rely solely on past experience.—Read

    Jeremiah 10:23.

    COMMENTS

    David evidently thought that adultery and murder were okay; perhaps he should have realized that sometimes the instructions stay the same.

    Yes, as a jw, be very careful, because the WTS is “adjusting” and “clarifying” God’s word every year.

    Flipflops

    Superior authorities

    Till 1929 – secular governments

    1929-1962-God and Jesus

    1962-now—secular governments

    Organ transplants

    Till 1967—okay

    1967-1980—not okay, df’ing

    1980-no—personal conscience

    Sodom and Gomorrah —have been in and out of Gehenna (eternal death) at least 7 times

    14. What lesson can we draw from the way that

    Joshua and the older men of Israel dealt with the

    Gibeonites?

    14 Being imperfect, all of us—even experienced

    elders—need to be on guard against

    failing to look to Jehovah for direction

    when making decisions. Consider how Moses’

    successor, Joshua, and the older men

    of Israel responded when approached by

    shrewd Gibeonites who disguised themselves

    and pretended to have come from a

    distant land. Without inquiring of Jehovah,

    Joshua and others went ahead and made

    peace with the Gibeonites, concluding a

    covenant with them. Even though Jehovah

    ultimately supported the agreement, he

    made sure that this failure to seek his direction

    was recorded in the Scriptures for our

    benefit.—Josh. 9:3-6,14,15.

    COMMENTS

    Yes, elders, remember to consult that elder’s manual, then the CO and DO, and then call the “service desk.” You can pray but how will you know God’s answer without the Urim and Thummim?

    The Israelites were told by God to destroy all the Canaanites, men, women, children, and sometimes even the livestock. By special dispensation, Rahab and her family survived, and the Israelites failed to carry out completely God’s command.

    When Struggling to Resist Temptations

    15. Explain why prayer is important in resisting

    temptation .

    15 Having “sin’s law” within our members,

    we need to put up a strong fight against

    sinful inclinations. (Rom. 7:21-25) This is a

    fight that can be won. How? Jesus told

    his followers that prayer is vital in resisting

    temptation. (Read Luke 22:40.) Even if

    wrong desires or thoughts persist after we

    have prayed to God, we need to “keep on

    asking God” for wisdom to cope with this

    trial. We are assured that “he gives generously

    to all and without reproaching.” (Jas. 1:5)

    James also writes: “Is there anyone [spiritually]

    sick among you? Let him call the older

    men of the congregation to him, and let

    them pray over him, greasing him with oil in

    the name of Jehovah. And the prayer of faith

    will make the indisposed one well.”—Jas. 5:

    14, 15.

    COMMENTS

    Pray…resist temptation…asking GOD for wisdom, not humans…after all, all elders are imperfect right?

    What kind of prayers do elders give when “helping” others? Does “spiritually sick” indicate moral sins or depression, sadness, discouragement?

    16, 17. When seeking help to resist temptation,

    when is the best time to pray?

    16 Prayer is essential in resisting temptation,

    but we must be cognizant of the need

    to pray at the right time. Consider the case

    of a certain young man mentioned at Proverbs

    7:6-23. During the twilight hours, he is

    walking down a street where an immoral

    woman is known to live. Misled by her persuasiveness

    and seduced by the smoothness

    of her lips, he goes after her, like a bull that

    comes to the slaughter. Why had this young

    man gone there? Since he was “in want of

    heart,” that is, inexperienced, he was likely

    struggling with wrong desires. (Prov. 7:7)

    When would prayer have benefited him the

    most? Of course, praying to resist temptation

    at any time during his encounter would

    have been valuable. But the best time for

    him to pray would have been when he first

    had the idea of walking down that street.

    COMMENTS

    Pray at the right time….I remember from AA, to call some for help before you drink, not after.

    Did David pray the first time he saw Bathsheba bathing….? Does it have to be an immoral woman? Why doesn’t the WTS use this experience?

    17 Today, a man may be trying hard to resist

    viewing pornography. However, suppose

    he were to visit Internet sites where he

    knows there are provocative pictures or videos.

    Would not his case be similar to that of

    the young man referred to in Proverbs chapter 7?

    What a dangerous path to begin walking

    down! To resist temptation to view pornography,

    a person needs to seek Jehovah’s

    help in prayer before starting to go down that

    route on the Internet.

    COMMENTS

    Have you noticed that the WTS feels only men have a problem with pornography? Probably too many accidental visits to internet sites. Is it possible to block out these sites?

    *** g03 7/22 p.3***

    JOHN never intended to become addicted to ‘Internet sex.’ Like many other people who are accidentally exposed to pornography and sex chat rooms, he was using the Internet one day when he stumbled upon a site offering such chat rooms. Soon, he was completely absorbed in cybersex.

    In resisting temptation, when is prayer most beneficial?

    18, 19. (a) Why can resisting temptation be challenging,

    but how can you meet the challenge successfully?

    (b) What is your determination?

    18 It is not easy to resist temptation or

    overcome bad habits. “The flesh is against

    the spirit in its desire,” wrote the apostle

    Paul, “and the spirit against the flesh.”

    Therefore, “the very things that [we] would

    like to do [we] do not do.” (Gal. 5:17) To

    meet this challenge, we need to pray fervently when wrong

    thoughts or temptations first

    come to mind and then act in harmony with

    our prayers. “No temptation has taken you

    except what is common to men,” and with

    Jehovah’s help, we can remain faithful to

    him.—1 Cor. 10:13.

    COMMENTS

    Be sure to run to the elders and get yourself in a whole heap of trouble

    You can bet that some of the elders are “accidentally” finding porn sites onlin.

    19 Whether we are dealing with a difficult

    situation, making a weighty decision, or

    trying to resist temptation, Jehovah has given

    us a wonderful gift—the precious provision

    of prayer. By means of it, we demonstrate

    our reliance on him. We should also

    keep on asking God for his holy spirit, which

    guides and strengthens us. (Luke 11:9-13)

    And by all means, let us trust in Jehovah and

    not lean upon our own understanding.

    COMMENTS

    Praying to God is demonstrating reliance on him; running to the elders or other jws is relying on humans.

    Be like the Bereans:

    (Acts 17:11) . . .Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·ni′ca, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.

    Do You Recall?

    What did you learn from Hezekiah,

    Hannah, and Jonah about trusting

    in Jehovah?

    How do the examples of David and

    Joshua emphasize the need for caution

    when making decisions?

    When especially should we pray

    about temptations?

    CLOSING COMMENTS

    It is no wonder jws know more about the OT than many people. They are guided to imitate Israelites, not Christians of the first century.

    (1 Thessalonians 5:21) . . .Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.

    Love, Blondie

    F blondie posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:14:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

    Post 33129 of 37442
    Joined 5/28/2001

    testing

    cantleave posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:22:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

    Post 7780 of 13182
    Joined 6/25/2009

    Oh my! I feel a little sick after reading that crap. Good comments Blondie.

    Ding posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 21:27:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

    Post 2884 of 5052
    Joined 8/27/2010

    It is no wonder jws know more about the OT than many people. They are guided to imitate Israelites, not Christians of the first century.

    Good observation, Blondie.

    The WTS thinks they have replaced the nation of Israel in God's eyes, contrary to the teachings in Romans 9-11.

    The WTS religion is essentially a law system with a Christian veneer, contrary to the teachings in the book of Galatians.

    And the WTS makes up its own rules as well.

    Where in either the OT or NT does it say men shouldn't have facial hair, for example?

    F Mary posted Sun, 01 Jan 2012 23:17:00 GMT(1/1/2012)

    Post 12988 of 12737
    Joined 6/26/2002
    When we pray for deliverance from a troublesome situation, it is wise to examine our motives. Are we concerned exclusively with getting relief from the problem, or do we keep Jehovah and his purpose in mind?

    Ya, how totally selfish of someone who's lost their job and has no way to provide for their family, or someone whose child has been diagnosed with cancer, to pray to God solely for "getting relief". Apparently that's supposed to take a backseat to "his purpose" which He could fix immediately if He wanted to.

    Personal suffering can easily cause us to get so caught up in our own situation that concern over spiritual matters fades into the background. When praying to God for help, let us keep our mind focused on Jehovah, the sanctification of his name, and the vindication of his sovereignty. Doing so can help us to maintain a positive outlook even if the solution that we hope for fails to materialize.

    What total crap. If Jehovah wants sooooo badly to have his name 'sanctified' and his position 'vindicated', then why doesn't he just frigging well do it? Even when I was a practicing Witness, I found it incredibly difficult to believe that we were allowed to suffer in order for 'His name to be sanctified'. One has nothing to do with the other. And I love the last part that people should "...maintain a positive outlook even if the solution that we hope for fails to materialize."

    Um, if there's no answer to your prayer, they why bother praying? What good does it do?

    What a dumb-assed article.........Blondie, our thanks that you were able to endure it.

    breakfast of champions posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:20:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 856 of 3926
    Joined 5/30/2011

    Ditto what MARY said. Summed up my feelings perfectly.

    F jgnat posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 02:57:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 16775 of 24315
    Joined 7/4/2002

    Having the "pleasure" of reviwing the article this week, I have eagerly looked forward to your analysis. I've been reading Plato lately. What strikes me most is the platonic assumption that thinking people will involve themselves in lifelong learning. With such skills, they can tackle life. With such skills they can build worlds.

    What a contrast with the best advice the WT has to offer, which is, essentially, that man's best is never enough. Better pray about it.

    Another big surprise from Plato's Republic is how much Paul must have borrowed from greek thinking.

    Well, these comments are well away from this week's theme; avoid pornography. That's a kind of no-brainer, don't you think? My experience that advice like this is damned to backfire. Just like bad drivers can't peel their eyes from the hazard - doomed to strike it - one doesn't avoid temptation by naming it. Why not consider reaching for the highest expressions of love?

    JW GoneBad posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 03:56:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 585 of 1731
    Joined 10/23/2010

    OH God, there they go again using King David as a good example to follow (par 12 & 13). Every time the WT brings up the name King David in whatever context in their literature, I think of a womanizer, cheat, chicken shit and murderer.

    Why does the WTBTS hold this wicked individual in such high regard? With so many other Bible characters to choose from, can they not do any better than King David? Especially in this article about the need to pray before getting into trouble.

    JW GoneBad posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 04:41:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 586 of 1731
    Joined 10/23/2010

    Blondie says...... "You can bet that some of the Elders are "accidently" finding porn sites online"

    Perhaps for purposes of this discussion 1 Cor 10:13 should read: “No temptation has taken you except what is common to...... Elders

    I think there's a little horny "David" in most of us, including the Holy WTBTS' Elders. As computer savvy as most Elders are, they could easily get in and out of porn sites with little detection.

    punkofnice posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 09:51:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 1915 of 5069
    Joined 1/6/2011

    Very well don again Blondie

    I couldn't face reading the WBT$ propaganda other than to skim over it.

    What was the point of this article I wondered.

    I can only conclude it's just another 'guilt trip' propaganda stunt.

    Prayer. OMG! Examine your motive for prayer is it selfish? What a redundant piece of guilt tripping. You fear financial crisis thru' job loss for instance. What POSSIBLE motive can a person have other than to ask Jehovah(TM) for help?. Strewth. What are these jerks on?

    Then they show their obsession with the internet and porn. More guilt being poured out on the JDubs, What do the old farts the GB have on their minds?

    All the Old Testament examples?? Could it be that the GB want to promote the cult compound ideology? Make 'em think that Jehovah(TM) has an organization(TM) in today's world then guilt trip them in to staying and obeying the GB.

    Paragraph 9 was just unbelievable nonsense. If we have to 'endure'(TM) then obviously we DON'T have god's help!!

    Regards Paolo

    truthseeker1969 posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 10:07:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 191 of 266
    Joined 5/10/2011

    Hehe I never ever accidentally find porn, I have it bookmarked

    Room 215 posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 12:52:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 2604 of 2914
    Joined 4/16/2001

    What is this obsession with pornogrqaphy? Most sociologists regards it as innocuous fantasizing. Why is it such a problem among people who devote so much of their conscious existence wrapped up in meeting attendance, Bible study and the public ministry?

    I also love the advice in paragraphs 13 which exhorts the reader to "ask, ask ask" God (Bethel? the elders?) every single time he/she faces a recurrent challenge... who does one ask? The elders? I wish I had a nickel for every time I heard an elder bemoan the childish inability of the friends to base their decisions on clear-cut "Bible principles" rather than run to them for guidance.

    By the way: just how does/did God communicate his answers to David, Hezekiah, Hannah, etc. anyway?

    WTWizard posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 14:57:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 12614 of 14942
    Joined 5/10/2007

    This whole article is complete rubbish. (As they all are.) You are suffering, and so Jehovah puts out his worn-out, out of date stock examples of all the prayer answerings he ever will do. You are to read these in lieu of getting relief from your own problems. Yet, you are still supposed to praise that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag. When I have a problem, I don't give a fxxx what Jehovah Baghead did for Job, Tyrant David, Hezekiah, Moses, or anyone else in the Bible. Those stock examples only prove that Jehovah showed love (for selfish reasons) for those people at those times, and prove nothing for me and now.

    And, if Jehovah doesn't provide me relief now, I rightfully assume he is absconding his duties on me. Showing me that he helped someone else some 3,000 years ago doesn't help me now. Nor does it assure that Jehovah is going to do onto me as he did onto them. The whole thing is the biggest scam since the whole Original Sin rubbish.

    wasblind posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:01:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 5110 of 9409
    Joined 6/13/2010

    Pure Gold, that's what this is, Pure Gold

    wasblind posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:01:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 5111 of 9409
    Joined 6/13/2010

    Pure Gold, that's what this is, Pure Gold

    wasblind posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 15:01:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 5112 of 9409
    Joined 6/13/2010

    Pure Gold, that's what this is, Pure Gold

    There I again with the multiple post

    sorry folks

    Sayswho posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:08:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 255 of 587
    Joined 4/25/2010

    thanks: Blondie...my Mom just Im me and said "the study really made her examine herself, and how one can sure put oneself above Jeh's thinking on situations. And how she was really going to pray to Jeh for help"---I feel so sad for her but she in in her late 70s and I don't know if she will benefit from the "real truth". Some things do bother her but she feels that this is Gods Org. To wake up and realize you wasted your whole life...not sure if that is even something that I would want at 78 years old.

    Sw

    stillin posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 16:26:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 492 of 1616
    Joined 7/20/2008

    I liked reading how, when David prayed to God, each of the three times God "replied" or God "said." I never had that kind of a response to any of my prayers. It was always me trying to figure out what the hell I was supposed to do, according to God's "will." Why pray if it can only go one way...God's way? I was at the congregation study for this article and it so depressed me to hear people bragging about God answering their prayers all of the time, that I just couldn't bring myself to contribute to the discussion in any way.

    F blondie posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 17:58:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 33131 of 37442
    Joined 5/28/2001

    Thanks for the enlightening comments.

    I too wondered about what was meant about God answering their prayers.

    In David's day the high priest had the Urim and Thummim.

    *** w09 6/1 p.27***

    It appears that the Urim and the Thummim were used in ancient Israel to discern Jehovah’s will in matters that concerned the nation or its leaders. These objects were entrusted to the high priest and were kept in the pouch of the “breastpiece of judgment.” (Exodus 28:15, 16, 30) Although the Scriptures never describe these objects or their exact method of use, different passages seem to imply that they were employed as lots that would result in either a “yes” answer, a “no” answer, or no answer at all from God.

    Jonah was a prophet (supposedly God spoke directly to them to pass on to others)

    (Jonah 1:1-2) . . .And the word of Jehovah began to occur to Jo′nah the son of A·mit′tai, saying: 2 “Get up, go to Nin′e·veh the great city, and proclaim against her that their badness has come up before me.”

    But what about Hannah? Supposedly the high priest Eli passed on God's answer

    The anointed, WTS, GB, say they are not prophets in that sense, putting for new info from God just repeating what has already been said. They say they are not inspired.

    Jesus is the high priest since 33 C.E.

    So how did God communicate with humans.............

    Here is the WTS weasel explanation.

    *** g01 7/22 pp. 13-14 How Can Prayer Help Me? ***

    How God Answers Prayers

    In Bible times some men of faith did have direct—even miraculous—answers to their prayers. When King Hezekiah, for example, learned that he had a terminal illness, he supplicated God for deliverance. God responded: “I have heard your prayer. I have seen your tears. Here I am healing you.” (2 Kings 20:1-6) Other God-fearing men and women similarly experienced God’s intervention.—1 Samuel 1:1-20; Daniel 10:2-12; Acts 4:24-31; 10:1-7.

    However, divine intervention was hardly the norm, even in Bible times. For the most part, God answered the prayers of his servants, not by miraculous intervention, but by helping them to “be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension.” (Colossians 1:9, 10) Yes, God helped by strengthening his people spiritually and morally—giving them the wisdom and knowledge to make wise decisions. When Christians were in a difficult situation, God did not necessarily remove the trial. Rather, he provided them with “the power beyond what is normal” so that they could endure it!—2 Corinthians 4:7; 2 Timothy 4:17.

    Likewise today, an answer to your prayer will probably not involve something dramatic. But as he did in the past, God can give you his holy spirit and strengthen you to handle whatever situations you face. (Galatians 5:22, 23)

    designs posted Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:02:00 GMT(1/2/2012)

    Post 8340 of 18798
    Joined 6/17/2009

    I like how the Manna appears every morning to feed world's hungry especially the children.

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