How could I have believed it all? - response

The "blame the victim" thinking that ex-members experience is common among all victims of trauma. In fact we live in a society that is filled with this mentality. And we were a part of an organization that reinforced this thinking every time they blamed the rank and file for the Borg's mistakes.
The effective use of mind control techniques is not dependent on a person intelligence. And I know you know that. The techniques are very effective. That is why they use them and keep refining them.

I was just looking at some of the study material they have on their website. Wow it sure is condensed from the days of the "Truth" book. An individual is immediately programmed to stop thinking. Read the paragraph and find the answer and read it. There is no real opportunity for discussion - just quote it back. Go to a meeting and it is the same thing. No thinking required. And that is exactly the point. No thinking required. Just recite what you are told. Which is one of the main reasons that JWs cannot provide answers when asked to explain their beliefs. They all recite the same answers - almost word for word. Again - no thinking required.

A second point is that we live in a society where we are bombarded with information. As a result I think many of us experience information overload. We sit in front of our TVs and zone out. Information flows through and past us. Some information we retain but most gets lost in the massive amount of information directed at us.

One day someone comes along and in a careful, methodical, and even simplistic way presents some more information. It may be that the presentation alone is enough to make us more susceptible to the message and the mind control technique used on us - personal and simplistic. We may be at a vulnerable point in our lives. We may be searching for something better or different. We may be simply not paying attention or questioning the validity of what we are being told. We may also innocently believe it when we are told that those answers will be explained later.

Remember one of the mind control techniques is information control. And the Borg is a master at using all forms of information control to both get their members and maintain the ones they have.

The wonderful thing about the net is that unlike TV or other forms of media that bombard us daily a person can stop the action and really take in the information that interests them. If it doesn't interest them, they just need to click a button. Unlike TV the Internet is not passive. It is interactive. And unlike the Borg method of indoctrination there is no person around to interrupt or control a person's thought processes while taking in the information.

I believe the methods used by the Borg to indoctrinate new converts are much more powerful than most people realize.

But I also believe that the Internet just might be the beginnings of their demise - at least in countries where the Internet is readily accessible. The Borg’s ability to control access to information when people can get it in their homes when no one is looking will have to weaken.

Ultimately we, the victims, are not to blame for being victims.

One more thought here is that it is normal for people to want to blame someone when something bad happens. The ability for many of us to point the finger at the Borg and say it was your fault is limited to forums such as this or discussion with others who understand - mostly because they have "been there"

It is also normal for victims to want some kind of accounting, explanation or even apology. Well, in this case we know that is not going to happen. So in the absence of the Borg taking responsibility for their actions and the harm they have caused us, many if us will turn the finger and point it at ourselves. After all, someone must take responsibility and when they don't we do - live good victims.

But we did nothing wrong.

And we are not responsible for being victims of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society AKA Borg

------------------------------------------
Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002

Well, if you wrote this yourself, I just have to say: "Good lord, woman, you actually DO have an education background like your website says!"

That's such a good point! (I sound like a jw, don't I?) We can stop, take a breather, come back - correspond (or argue), read, question - and keep looking if we want.

#1 and #2 - Me too.

waiting

waiting - you just cracked me up ---- and wow you are fast - truth is I just wrote that up but think I will expand on it and add it to the website.

And yes the credentials are for real - check out http://www.kohlproductions.com/walkingwounded/interview.htm

Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002

Hey Lee,

Why, thank you! I do enjoy your posts - wish you would post more. There's a peacefullness (naturally or disciplined) within your postings that I enjoy.

Very insightful (another jw phrase). And if I made you smile - good! A rare undertaking in these neck of the woods sometimes.

waiting

Thank you very much waiting. hmmm peacefulness - yes I think that has always been a part of who I am - certainly not something I was trained to do. Think I have always believed that a kind and loving attitude is far more appealing to those you want to help than trying to induce fear through angry words.

I work long hours so come in when I can and when I have something to say I usually do. There are a lot of insightful posters in here and I do read even if I do not always comment.

Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002

Lady Lee,

I liked your post.

Quote:“We may be at a vulnerable point in our lives. We may be searching for something better or different. We may be simply not paying attention or questioning the validity of what we are being told. We may also innocently believe it when we are told that those answers will be explained later.”

You remind me of “True Believer” by Eric Hoffer. Recently finished it and highly recommend it.

Quote: “Remember one of the mind control techniques is information control. And the Borg is a master at using all forms of information control to both get their members and maintain the ones they have.”

This is the hard nut to crack. While the internet is available, a loyal JW will not look until they are once again “searching for something better” as you mention above. This will not happen until they reach a point of frustration or discontent that erodes their loyalty.

It appears that simply having information available has had its affect in the US and Europe. But I suspect the level of intellectual frustrations is also high in these lands. Which comes first? Personally I was discontent for decades, but the internet gave me the opportunity to discreetly indulge my disloyal curiosity.
Good of you to emphasize that we are the victims and we did nothing wrong. Thanks for the thoughts.

Jst2laws

Excellent points, Lady Lee! I've been convinced for more than eight years that the free flow of information on the Internet will be the Society's demise.

I remember attending a one-day assembly in the autumn of 1993, where the Bethel speaker George Couch lamented that so many young JW men failed to stay with "the Truth". He said that in some New York City congregations not far from Bethel, not a single young man in 20 years has remained a JW. The situation with young women was not a lot better. I thought to myself, "Well it's no wonder! The amount of information available to young people today is so much greater than it was a few years ago. The Internet is only accelerating the flow of information. People are born with internal bullshit detectors that usually don't become set to ignore bullshit until they're well into their teens, and so if young JWs have good access to the Net, their bullshit detectors won't get turned off by the Society, but will remain active." So far my thoughts have been on the money.

AlanF

Jst2laws

No the loyal ones will not look. On the other hand we have the privelege of having a few of them in here with us who porfess to be loyal to the borg (while ignoring its "suggestions" to avoid places like this). Even if they don't pay attention to what they read here they are bound at some time to let the cat out of the bag - you just know they will have to share what they are doing with somebody - and maybe - just maybe - they will be telling the exact person who is ready to know

AlanF

I like that - bullshit detectors - think you are right on the money with that one - mine is fine tuned now :)

Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002

Good post, Lee; you brought up many interesting points. I'm certain the Internet hurts the Tower, because information is easily accessed. The Internet also goes beyond information gathering and into cyber communities with common interest. Former Witnesses no longer feel isolated. The Tower uses shunning to isolated and shame members stepping out of line. The Internet turned the tables as former JWs find a "Great Crowd" by clicking on-line. I don't know if the Web will bring the Tower down because some seek simple black and white answers for everything. However, the Tower is weaker today because of the Internet, and folks like You Know and Fred Hall have no excuse for ignorance (except for their willful ignorance) thanks to the Internet. It's a powerful tool.

" but the woman You gave me "

It's normal to hear about "what happened to me", but I rarely if ever hear about the act of indoctrinating others, and particularly when it was done after knowing that things were amiss.

There's a difference between not really deserving any punishment and not having done anything at all wrong - in fact those who examine their response-ability naturally attract less punishment, and those who emphatically deny having response-ability attract condemnation.

With so much external input, it can be harder to be humble (i.e. the down to earth view) and accept what really is true.

Bang

As for the internet, bring on the knowledge and free these people.

The internet has to be the curse of the WTS. One slip and before you know it ...it is blasted all round the planet!

ISP

That's right, ISP, but it's far more than mere slips that get exposed. A lot of the Society's semi-secret internal dealings are exposed to the harsh light of public examination.

Several years ago the semi-secret elders' manual Pay Attention to All the Flock appeared on the Net, and is now available on many websites.

Over the years certain changes in WTS doctrine or policy were announced on the Net days or weeks in advance of the official WTS announcement, which embarassed the Society no end.

Several weeks ago the entire recorded text of the recent Kingdom Ministry School for elders appeared on the Net. This shows the internal discontent displayed by some elders.

Several weeks ago some private correspondence between an elder and the Society on the blood doctrine appeared on the Net. This was valuable in that it showed how much disrespect the Society has even for sincere elders, and how sterile their arguments are.

From time to time letters to Bodies of Elders appear on the Net, and if Kent Steinhaug gets his way a lot will appear. These letters show how duplicitous and underhanded the Society can be, telling the public one thing and telling elders to do something else.

Stories from people who were abused by Watchtower shenanigans regularly appear on the Net. I have no doubt that after the NBC Dateline program appears, there will be a huge groundswell of reaction and such abuse stories will appear en masse.

Indeed, the Net is forcing the Watchtower Society into doing the right thing for once, but not without much protest.

AlanF

AlanF,

Quote: "Over the years certain changes in WTS doctrine or policy were announced on the Net days or weeks in advance of the official WTS announcement, which embarassed the Society no end."

Because of the internet we are the most informed JW/XJW's in the world. I am constantly gaurded in my contact with Witnesses not just for what I might say that is contrary, but because of what I know that I'm not supposed to know. For months now I have had to act dumb as "elder" friends convey points they learned at KM school. I had the whole thing before they even went. During the last year and and a half I raised suspicion too often by calling the secretary to see if we had received 'such and such' letter yet. To this day more XJW's then Jw's know that taking blood is no long an official disfellowshipping' offense. Even some Elders do not yet understand the changes.

Yes we are well informed now. It must be scary for the GB. If only we could find inoffensive ways to get more loyal Jdubs to look.

Jst2laws

Good points, jst2laws. Actually we're so well informed that even Bethelites are sometimes suprised by information conveyed to them, sometimes even before they've heard it on the inside.

Alan

I can just imagine the gb running around trying to figure out who is leaking all the info.

When I started my recovery I learned that information is power. As they continue to lose power over information they too will lose power over their members.

Sadly most will still believe that the problem is outside the borg rather than the problem being with the wolves who govern within

Rejoice in the healing and not in the pain.
Rejoice in the challenge overcome and not in the past hurts.
Rejoice in the present - full of love and joy.
Rejoice in the future for it is filled with new horizons yet to be explored. - Lee Marsh 2002

I have noticed this comment on the board lately quite a few times so thought I would bttt for those who might need it

Thank you Lee for bringing this to the top again. I think it is natural to blame ourselves. After all, we will never get the real problem (WT) to admit their guilt, so we look around for someone else to help us bear the burden of getting suckered into it. But there's no one to blame but ourselves, whether we deserve it or not. It's so hard to get to that point where we can say "It is what it is, and at that time in my life, there was nothing I could do. There was a reason I got taken in, and IT WAS NOT MY FAULT."

It seems we go from one extreme to another in our culture. Either we duck responsibility for anything, or we shoulder the burden of all blame. How much better when we learn to let it go and quit berating ourselves for our vulnerability. This post struck a real chord with me LadyLee, and there is something deep inside I am trying to get out with my words here, but it's not coming. It's stuck, somewhere in my back I think, which is really apropos. Where else would I carry a burden? Maybe by bringing my thoughts to it, I can ferret out what I want to say and that burden will be lightened...

Odrade

Odrade

A couple of things came to mind while I was reading your post

WT responsibility. The WTS spent years telling us that if we weren't happy little JWs then the fault was us. We weren't praying enough or going to enought meetings or not preparing for them properly or not going on service enough. And then there is always we jumped ahead or misunderstood. It was so hard for me to get to the point where I could even beging to believe that the problem wasn't me and my pathetic mind and heart condition.

Blaming the WTS was akin to blaming God himself and that was the unthinkable. So there we were feeling like something was wrong but unable to put our finger on it. They taught us well. And it takes time to undo all that mind control.

need for justice I think as humans with a certain value system we have an innate need for justice. And as far as the WTS not too many people get any sort of justice. Even those who have gone to court against the WTS have come away with a battered feeling of justice. With no one else to hold responsible we wind up blaming ourselves.

I think it certainly doesn't help that society in general have this idea that the victim is to blame for being in the situation in the first place or tolerating it as long as they did (i.e abused wives). It takes time to learn the dynamics of abuse and the impact it has on the victim.

Learning all that can move us towards being survivors. At least here we can openly recognize the responsibility the WTS has for its unethical treatment of people and how its policies scar people for greatly.

I've been reading and talking to a therapist about solving the problems of the past in the present. How my past shapes the way I respond to things now. And I've found that my need to blame myself is rooted in a need to NOT forgive myself. I know that sounds odd, but if I forgive myself for being suckered, then I have to forgive my parents for being suckered too. And I'm not ready to forgive them. It's much easier to blame somedays, than to face that little lump of cold, hard anger that I have against them. And it's easier to be angry at them than it is to place the blame squarely where it belongs--- the methods of the WTBTS.

Intellectually, I know that's where it goes, but how do you get satisfaction out of a corporate monolith? It's a long hard road to mental peace.

O

Odrade

I don't know if getting satisfaction from them is possible. I highly doubt they will ever accept responsibility.

But that doesn't have to stop us from placing the blame where it goes. On some level the people at the top who are raking it in ( the money) and creating all these new legal corporations to hide the money and using all the lawyers to find the legal loopholes - they know what they are doing. I may never meet them or never take them to court or even write to them with the slim hope that I would get a response but I know in my gut they know what they are doing and they don't care that people are getting hurt.

I used to hear people say and said it myself about my mother that "She did the best she could and I love she loved me the best way she knew how." That was such a crock. Yes she knew enough to not do some things. But there was many things she did and she knew how much it hurt. It was her choice to make those decisions. And now I don't excuse her by saying she did the best she could. She knew what she was doing in some things was wrong which is why she hid it.

And I think that is the key. If someone really doesn't know something is wrong they don't hide it. They do it in the open and are surprised when someone addresses it. Well the WTS has been told what they are doing is wrong - morally and legally and they choose to pretend they are right and schoose to hide behing a lot of double talk and legal loopholes

If it looks guilty and talks guilty and acts guilty then....