A Concerned Elder Speaks

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    Franklin Massey posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:11:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 39 of 373
    Joined 1/5/2011

    A lot of talk has centered around information dispensed at the recent KM schools. Many brothers feel there is a "tightening up" taking place. I had a recent experience that you may find interesting.

    After the meeting I was working with our CoBE on some congregation tasks when out of nowhere he said, "Have you looked up any extra information about higher education since the KM school?" I hadn't. I had been through all of the recently published info within the last year and I heard enough at the school to get the strong point they were trying to make. I have kept my stronger opinions about this matter to myself (except for on this board). I asked why he wondered if I had done more research. "Well, Me and Bro. Otherelder have been talking and we feel like the Society is reversing their stand on college." This was a bold statement coming from this brother's mouth. He is very by-the-book, has a wonderful family, lives simply, and is quite prominent in our circuit. I played it cool and simply agreed that the lanuage was rather heavy at KM school. He looked stressed and discouraged. He said, "I never thought I would be deleted from my position as elder for something like this." I told him not too be too dramatic just yet. He replied, "You heard what they said. 'If an elder sends his child to college his position could be called into question!' We've been making plans for our kids to attend college for years now." This brother is a very hard worker but has never attended any schooling further than High School. His line of work has been affected by the economy and things have been difficult for some time now. He and his wife want to make sure that their kids don't have to carry the burden of struggling to make ends meet. He believes that in the long run, they will be better equipped to function spiritually if they don't have the anxiety of just scraping by hanging over their heads for most of their adult life. He continued, "Bro. Otherelder is concerned too. He was going to take some classes to get some specialized training so he can find better work." Bro. Otherelder is another faithful man in the congregation. Lately, he has been trying to assist in taking care of some ailing family members, which costs more money than he has right now. Now, he too is afraid to get the additional training he needs to help provide for his family. The CoBE said, "He and I have gone through the info in the WT library and we thought we were doing everything within the suggested boundaries. But at the KM school, they were making it sound like college should not be an option that an elder would consider for his family. They threw out these crazy statistics to try to back up their point but I don't care what anyone says; You can find, and keep, a better job if you have a degree." The more he spoke, the more freely I could speak. We agreed that the instruction at the KM school on college seemed unfair. We agreed that what was said at the school was not in accord with what the WT has put in print and distributed to the masses. I told him that if we were concerned, others are too and that time will tell if this matters is clarified. The thing that surprised me was, as much as this brother loves being an elder, he was willing to sacrifice his position for the sake of his family's well being. He was allowing himself to make an informed decision, independent of the controlling grip of the Society. I have always loved this brother but after this, my respect for him grew to a new level.

    F snowbird posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:14:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 20501 of 23468
    Joined 5/2/2007

    Good for him!

    I hope others will follow suit.

    Bastards! (WT)

    Syl

    stuckinamovement posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:20:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 169 of 760
    Joined 2/23/2010

    This is one of the reasons I gave for stepping down recently. I feel strongly that I need to do what is right for my family. I never went to college and the lack of a degree will limit my advancement and perhaps job security. Like any parent I want my children to have more opportunity than I did.

    I actually brought this up in a BOE meeting asking the other brothers about the hardline stance. All agreed that the direction has changed and that it will be a challenge to apply. There are several elders in my hall who will have their qualifications reassessed. I anticipate at the next CO visit there will be follow up on how to do this. Also generally after KM school is finished, the branch will send a "recap" letter to the BOE's.

    The net affect is there will be fewer qualified men who are able to serve. It is extremely ironic that in an organization that prides itself on educational programs that education is demonized.

    SIAM

    Red Piller posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:24:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 42 of 204
    Joined 9/22/2010

    During the MS school, on a 15 minute break, we were discussing the talk on college. A few of the MS's flat out said that their job situation would be better if they went to college and that they wish they went.

    sd-7 posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:30:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 1291 of 3760
    Joined 7/31/2009

    Interesting. I think that most sincere Witnesses would be disturbed by such a hardline stance on this issue, which has repeatedly been stated is a matter of conscience by the Society. The assemblies typically take potshots at higher education through much of the program, but taking it to this level really is something else. I doubt it'll make this particular elder wake up, per se, but it could be the raindrop that begins the storm, if not for him, maybe for others.

    --sd-7

    Ding posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:35:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 1584 of 5054
    Joined 8/27/2010

    Amazing how the WTS micromanages the lives of JWs -- to the detriment of themselves and their children.

    Interesting that they are losing elders over this.

    Must be these elders aren't buying in to the WTS' condemnation of college.

    baltar447 posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:39:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 401 of 2299
    Joined 3/11/2006

    It's complete bullshit. It's like they WANT fewer elders and servants. Complete idiocy.

    wannabefree posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:44:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 1056 of 2749
    Joined 4/5/2010

    Thanks for sharing, hopefully a lot of elders are thinking about this.

    The thing about this is, only the elders have first hand knowledge of this. The majority of JW's go on, accept the shifts in attitude provided in the mags, often missing them all together. We know about it, but try to bring the point out to the R&F ... for the most part, they won't believe you if you aren't an elder or will question how you got the information and your motives. Disagreeing with the this organization puts one in a precarious situation, you have to be very careful how you leak it.

    journey-on posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 17:48:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 4665 of 5333
    Joined 2/28/2007

    They will probably make it seem like yet another test of faith. Remember, "he that endures to the end will be saved." And more than not will buy into it for yet ANOTHER generation.

    yourmomma posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:00:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 370 of 1039
    Joined 11/26/2007

    From what Franklin has posted it seemed like they are telling the elders at km school that any college is not allowed. Are they becoming more extreme? I thought the latest was no 4 year university, or living on campus, etc. But now it seems like its any college, even making people fearful of taking extra classes.

    the watchtower is not run by smart men. they are in desperate need of elders, and they are so unreasonable that they are even pushing away faithful people who actually like being JW's who follow all the rules.

    amazing.

    miseryloveselders posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:02:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 1991 of 2662
    Joined 8/31/2009

    That conversation is very telling. It really shows the disconnect between those of us out here in the grind of life, and those higher ups in Bethel who don't have to face that grind. However, they may see the very real possibility coming, of having to deal with that 9-5 grind if the organization keeps bleeding their own. Till the day I die, I'll never forget looking at the heavyweight from Bethel telling us we were all culpable if we didn't review the qualifications of an elder who's kids are going to college. I'll never forget it, never. The worst part of it all is that it hit me while looking at the fat mooching slob on the stage threatening us, was that this guy's entire lifestyle is supported by the contributions of working people.

    He reminded me of an person I used to work with. The guy's name was Norman, but he went by the shortened version, Norm. He was so much of a weirdo and a freak, that we called him, Ab-Norm. Everybody at this plant absolutely detested this guy. He was physically weak and always needed a hand lifting things, because we only had so many overhead pneumatic pullies at the place. So if the pullies were all tied up, he'd come begging one of us to help him lift something. The guy was also an idiot, and the funny thing I've noticed about idiots is that they all do their best to not come off like idiots. Yet, they all fail miserably, and this jackass was no exception. Always telling us his about his previous jobs, and how we shoud do our jobs this way or that way. Eventually he was so ostrasized from everyone else at the shop, that he had to get another job. Prior to that, the supervisors were encouraging him to go on the night shift so that that they could limit his time in making potential enemies, especially because they didn't have a legitimate reason to fire him or lay him off. The last I heard, he found a job at a competing shop, and from what I understand, they all hate him there too. Freak.

    But I tell you, Ab-Norm reminded me so much of the heavyweight threatening us at the school. The same smarmy attitude, yet completely oblivious to other's perception of him. Ya know, I hope the conversation you had with that COBOE is a fitting discription of many other elders and servants throughout this organization. I spoke with my father by phone not that long after the school, and asked for his thoughts regarding higher education. He told me he's perplexed by it, as he can't see where they're coming from. It doesn't make any sense to him. One thing he said stood out to me though, as he relayed to me that he would not sit on some commitee or in some meeting judging a brother's qualifications to still serve if his children were pursuing higher education. I thought it was very telling, and I wonder how many other brothers would refuse to get involved with something like that. I know I wouldn't.

    journey-on posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:08:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 4667 of 5333
    Joined 2/28/2007

    The GB are older out-of-touch men that have no inkling that times have changed, and that GONE are the days of finding decent-paying jobs without higher education. They are still living in the 60's and 70's (or earlier) where young men could just walk into a factory or plant and get a job with just a high school diploma. Jobs have changed.

    Someone needs to educate these old farts.

    M JeffT posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:09:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 5089 of 7043
    Joined 6/4/2001

    As you will see when I post the next section of my personal background, this is THE issue that drove me from the Jehovah's Witnesses. I wanted better for my children and was not willing to accept somebody's statement that they needed to serve an unfulfilled fairy tale.

    Just out of curiosity, what is the WTBS going to do if half their elders quit or get forced out over this?

    DanaBug posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:17:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 259 of 630
    Joined 9/27/2010
    the watchtower is not run by smart men. they are in desperate need of elders, and they are so unreasonable that they are even pushing away faithful people who actually like being JW's who follow all the rules.
    Just out of curiosity, what is the WTBS going to do if half their elders quit or get forced out over this?

    My thoughts too. They haven't thought this one through either. Amazing how many lives they control, and they prove over and over they don't have any common sense or forethought. I hope this goes very badly for them.

    F LongHairGal posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 18:55:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 2333 of 4034
    Joined 3/11/2005

    FRANKLIN MASSEY: This is so tragic to read and it is past the point of just being angry with delusional people who are out of touch with the real world we live in. You actually have to get up and turn your back on this insanity. Nobody needs to try to bring this religion down because they are doing a very good job just by themselves. In my opinion, anybody who heeds the insane advice of these people to the detriment of their family is going to cry bitter tears.

    The Finger posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:19:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 675 of 857
    Joined 1/23/2010

    I have mixed feeling on this. If one truly believes then God will provide, our lives dedicated to God are that. Come rain or shine.

    miseryloveselders posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:29:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 1993 of 2662
    Joined 8/31/2009

    I have mixed feeling on this. If one truly believes then God will provide, our lives dedicated to God are that. Come rain or shine.

    Can you clarify this a little? Since when did seeking an education interfere with being dedicated to God? Since when did making a living interfere with being dedicated to God?

    M flipper posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:30:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 11434 of 17423
    Joined 3/7/2007

    FRANKLIN - Great thread. It's important to share these experiences and information with others on the board in order to see just how CONTROLLING the WT society has become and are becoming more INTRUSIVE into people's personal lives. WT society truly is a dangerous mind control cult who wants to " dumb down " the masses of Jehovah's Witnesses they are controlling. The more stupid, unintelligent, uninformed, and uneducated they can keep their members- then they can maintain control over them and keep them from exiting the Witnesses.

    Kudos to your P.O. elder friend who values his childrens education over his elders position in the congregation. Right on. I feel more and more elders and other witnesses are starting to wake up to the extreme control of the WT society. I hope more keep waking up. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

    M flipper posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:34:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 11435 of 17423
    Joined 3/7/2007

    The Finger- God won't just rain down freaking manna from heaven. I mean, God helps those who help themselves. He doesn't encourage laziness in the Bible - yet you wouldn't know it from the amount of JW's who pioneer while collecting free money off government assistance . God might provide, sure- but he doesn't want us sitting on our a$$. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

    M DaCheech posted Thu, 27 Jan 2011 19:50:00 GMT(1/27/2011)

    Post 4372 of 6646
    Joined 5/13/2004
    the watchtower is not run by smart men. they are in desperate need of elders, and they are so unreasonable that they are even pushing away faithful people who actually like being JW's who follow all the rules.
    Just out of curiosity, what is the WTBS going to do if half their elders quit or get forced out over this?
    My thoughts too. They haven't thought this one through either. Amazing how many lives they control, and they prove over and over they don't have any common sense or forethought. I hope this goes very badly for them.

    they're banking: that strongarm tactics will win over rational thinking

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