Bookmark and Share

Viewed 3696 times

Skeleton's Come Tumbling out of Bethel's Closet - Ray Franz- Book ISOCF

    M flipper posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:31:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 10667 of 17346
    Joined 3/7/2007

    My wife and I are towards the end ( finally ) of reading " In Search of Christian Freedom " by Ray Franz . ( Long book 728 pgs. )

    On pg. 598 & 599 Ray Franz makes very pertinent points exposing how the WT society has always claimed to be of higher moral character than other religion's and that Jehovah's Witnesses don't have the extent of wrongdoing that other religions have. Well- he certainly debunks THAT myth with what went on in Bethel . Notice what he said on pg. 598, " At the Brooklyn headquarters , as I know personally from having worked there, entire file cabinets in the Service department are filled with the records of cases of wrongdoing , some minor, many of them major, within the Witness membership. The entire gamut of wrongdoing is covered, from fornication, adultery, homosexuality, incest and sexual molestation of children to fraud, theft, wifebeating, and murder. Comparable records to those in the U.S. may be found in the branch offices of the organization throughout the world. " So- Translation - If you were ever brought before a JC - all your dirty little details are there for all the Service Department guys to ogle at.

    Ray continues on pg. 599, " I can recall cases of branch representatives engaging in theft , stealing from the branch funds, having a record of alcoholism , engaging in adulterous sexual relations, in one case with a prostitute, in another with the wife of a missionary living at the Branch office, and other moral failures. " In debunking a Quebec journalist for saying if all people were Jehovah's Witnesses " we would not at night have to bolt our doors shut and put on the burglar alarm ". Ray Franz said " He may think so. He does not know that at the international headquarters at Brooklyn, where the largest concentration of Witnesses on earth is to be found , it became necessary decades ago to install locks on all doors to living quarters and I never recall a period of any length during my 15 years there when there was not at least one witness thief active within the " Bethel Family ". Periodic warnings were necessary from the head of the table as to leaving valuables unattended or unsecured. " He continued that the " community of persons then numbering 1,900 like a fairly small town, but with a specialized populationfrom which one might expect a far smaller incidence of wrongdoing than in a small town. "

    Ray continued, " The Watchtower publications consistently claim that regular activity in the door-to-door " field service " constitutes a strong protection against spiritual weakness and wrongdoing. Yet most of those described in branch offices and the international headquarters were active in such work. " Bottom line : Nothing indicates that " field service " prevented any of these thefts or wrongdoings from happening, In fact just as much wrondoing occured even though witnesses engaged in service .

    So did any of you who were in Bethel observe some wrongdoing or skeleton's come out of closets when you were there ? Did you notice any more " righteousness " put into people just because they were at Bethel ? It certainly shows how there is no difference between Jehovah's Witnesses and other religion's all claiming to have " higher moral standards " than those outside who are not religious. As always I look forward to any observations, takes, or comments you have. Thanks, Hope you are all well, Peace out, Mr. Flipper

    M jookbeard posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:38:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 2034 of 4006
    Joined 1/28/2008

    Crikey Flipps,would have thought you and the good lady would have read that years ago!

    M flipper posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:44:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 10668 of 17346
    Joined 3/7/2007

    JOOKBEARD- I stopped attending 7 years ago- but didn't start reading Steve Hassan & Ray Franz's books until 2007 . Finally got around to getting In Search of Christian Freedom this year. I was hesitant at first to purchase the book because I thought it would be " too preachy " with Bible stuff which would bore me to tears. But it had lots of experiences and psychology references too ( which I'm into ) - not just Bible references. I kinda skipped over the Bible references. I just get bored reading Bible dribble. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

    M jookbeard posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:49:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 2036 of 4006
    Joined 1/28/2008

    I actually read it first approx 1992 possibly shortly after it was released and well before CoC, it was the very first "apostate" book I ever read and blew me away, my then wife found it in our car and binned it , then I bought it again!

    M leavingwt posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 00:56:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 8891 of 14213
    Joined 6/16/2008

    Flipper:

    Every 12 to 18 months in Brooklyn, we'd have a 'Bethel Thief'. It would be spoken about at Morning Worship. They would speak of this unknown person is the most vile manner. Eventually, the person would be caught and DF'd.

    Usually, from what I was told, it would be a single brother, stealing wedding bands/jewelry from locker rooms.

    elderelite posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 01:02:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 559 of 3229
    Joined 6/18/2010

    yep. there was a theif when I was there in the early 90s in brooklyn. A very good friend of mine was "fingered" as "the" theif (i'm sure he WAS NOT) and was sent home with NO EVIDENCE or PROOF, only speculation. After he was gone of course the thefts continued. after seeing how someone could be treated so badly with one person acting as judge and jury, that was the start of my exit from "the house of god"

    M leavingwt posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 01:10:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 8892 of 14213
    Joined 6/16/2008
    after seeing how someone could be treated so badly with one person acting as judge and jury, that was the start of my exit from "the house of god"

    Yeah, one of my close friends was rail-roaded. (Not related the theft.) My heart left Bethel that day. I know what you mean.

    Joey Jo-Jo posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 01:47:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 34 of 800
    Joined 8/24/2010

    ISOCF is a good book, im almost finished, starting to read the appendix, it would be great if we can bring all these matters at bethel up to surface.

    elderelite posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 02:05:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 560 of 3229
    Joined 6/18/2010

    Leaving, what was it your friend got railroaded for? I had another friend who was sent home for, and I'm not making this up, "reading commic books". they gave a talk about it at morning worship.

    Crisis of Conscience posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 04:13:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 150 of 949
    Joined 3/30/2010

    When I was serving at Patterson, I recall asking why in the hillbilly we had locks on our doors. Can't or rather don't we trust all of our "brothers" there?

    Well, I can testify to the truthfulness of what Ray said in his book as well as the former bethelites comments here.

    I was given the warning of "sticky fingers" at Bethel.

    What?!? Yes folks, I'm afraid it's true. It's somehting I had forgotten about until reading this thread. But I'm sure it's mentioned to all Bethel personell.

    CoC

    agonus posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 04:17:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 1510 of 2518
    Joined 11/18/2009

    Yeah, but it's still The Truth TM !

    M leavingwt posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:21:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 8893 of 14213
    Joined 6/16/2008
    Leaving, what was it your friend got railroaded for? I had another friend who was sent home for, and I'm not making this up, "reading commic books". they gave a talk about it at morning worship.

    I remember the 'Comic Book' purge. Looking back, it seems almost unreal/unbelievable.

    This friend was asked to leave Bethel, after more than 19 years of service, because of "potential" health issues with his heart. (Keep in mind, that at the time, the Branch Organization book was very clear on this topic. If someone had served for 15 years, the Society was obligated to care for them. Also, keep in mind, that EACH WEEK, the Governing Body was telling the Bethel Family to "make Bethel your home" and "never leave".)

    mann377 posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:23:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 230 of 244
    Joined 7/19/2002

    Yeah.............I remember............Lets see..........

    '73: Colon Lake, #4 man in dispatch at Brooklyn runs off with a Gilead student

    "73: I open up the housekeepers closet and find a married sister in the embrace of a new brother at Bethel. I was amazed at the number of affairs at Bethel. Of course you must understand that many of the couples that came to Bethel came from small towns that they grew in. Now they find themselves in the company of people from all over the country. They begin to realize that there is a big world out there with lots of people that they are now attracted too.

    '73: Sister was raped at the Farm. She and her husband were there on construction and so was her rapist. The only sight she could remember was a red plaid shirt the rapist was wearing. After lunch all the brothers had to report to the parking lot north of the E building. While there the brothers from the Bethel office went through all the rooms of the single brothers looking for a "red plaid" shirt. Thank god I did not have one but there were some who did and they were "interviewed". To this day, after almost 37 years, I will not buy a red plaid.

    '74 I saw on numberous times "married sisters" coming from rooms that were occupied by single brothers. This was always around midnight and they would turn off the lights in the hallways around 10:00 with only night lights to show the floor.

    '75 Two of my best friends that were fellow press operators would stay with their wordly girlfriends on the weekend. They found their girlfriends while working at a bar in a local town nearby.

    '76: Although not bad but funny: I was working late on a friends car and came back to my room around 11:00 Sat. night. I laid down on my bed to watch Sat nite Live. I had all of my dress clothes on and the lights off. The only light on in the room was from the TV. (my room mate was gone on vaction) After about a half hour the door opens to my room and a young (married) Gilead sister walks into my room and drops her bath rob to reveal a real sexy negligee. She says"I'm ready now sweetheart". At this point I sit up in bed and say "You have the wrong room". She grabed her bathrobe and proceeded to to run from my room and made a slight screem. At this point I think- How in the hell am I going to explain this! Fortunately no one noticed a half naked sister running from my room at midnite and nothing happened. When I went to breakfest the next morning my eyes could not help but fix on her. Thank goodness she did not notice me.

    M undercover posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 13:28:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 10567 of 13134
    Joined 9/25/2002
    Keep in mind, that at the time, the Branch Organization book was very clear on this topic. If someone had served for 15 years, the Society was obligated to care for them.

    LWT, Can you expand on that?

    I'm not familiar with that "code".

    Thanks

    M leavingwt posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:15:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 8894 of 14213
    Joined 6/16/2008
    LWT, Can you expand on that?
    I'm not familiar with that "code".

    I'm going from memory, here, so others can feel free to edit/amend my statement with more specifics.

    1. Once you had been at Bethel for 5 years, you were considered a 'Regular Bethelite'. You could still be replaced, but Bethel felt a certain obligation to work with you on job assignments, minor medical stuff, etc.

    2. According to the "Branch Organization" manual, copies of which were available for reading in the Bethel Library, volunteers who had reached 15 years of service at Bethel, had achieved (for the lack of a better word) tenure. This meant, for example, even if you became disabled and could not work, it was understood that Bethel would care for you. You had essentially put enough time in to earn your keep from there on out.

    At the time that my friend was asked to leave, it was the year 1995 or 1996. This was many years before the Branch Organization manual was changed. (The excuse they gave him for not sticking to the 15-year agreement, was that his wife had only been there for 14 years or so. Barf.)

    As we all know, about the year 2000 and 2001, the Governing Body (or Service Committee) re-visited this topic and made radical changes. Individuals and couples who had been at Bethel for more than 15 years began to receive pink slips and were re-assigned to "the field", etc. In other words, the old 15-year mark now means nothing.

    I would assume, then, that the Branch Organization manual has been updated to exclude the previous language about the 15 year threshold.

    Anyway, the lesson of this incident, for me, was that Bethel has ZERO loyalty to its volunteer workers. From this moment forward, I was there for ME. (I was still captive to the concept that it was God's Organization, but I was looking out for Numero Uno while at Bethel.)

    Mad Sweeney posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:22:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 2900 of 6963
    Joined 11/2/2009

    I almost checked ISoCF out of the library but it was HUGE. I just knew I would not have time to read it in a typical library loan period of time.

    It also seemed too doctrinal, based on a quick flip-through and excerpt reading. I couldn't get through the free blood chapter on Ray's website it was so tedious and dry. Good information, but just ugh. It seemed much more like a textbook than a narrative to me.

    I've read Coc but didn't feel the need for ISoCF. So, is it really worth reading? Should I give it another try?

    F snowbird posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:29:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 18776 of 23468
    Joined 5/2/2007

    I've read COC, but not ISOCF - that will be next on my reading list!

    Syl

    Meeting Junkie No More posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:33:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 1005 of 1363
    Joined 7/13/2007

    WOW, this thread is an eye-opener! Skeletons galore.

    PSacramento posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:33:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 5608 of 10973
    Joined 6/22/2009

    In many wys ISOCF was more eye opening for me than COC.

    M leavingwt posted Fri, 24 Sep 2010 14:36:00 GMT(9/24/2010)

    Post 8897 of 14213
    Joined 6/16/2008
    I've read Coc but didn't feel the need for ISoCF. So, is it really worth reading? Should I give it another try?

    Absolutely. IMHO, if you read it, you'll never regret it. Ray takes ALL major WT doctrines and gives them a good, old-fashioned beat down.

      Close

      Confirm ...