Branch Closings Puts It On the Line

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    metatron posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:31:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 5280 of 7449
    Joined 4/7/2001

    There have been a number of posts made about the Watchtower Society closing or downsizing Branch Offices and I think the hard consequences of this desperate move have not been fully appreciated.

    OK, so you have C.O.'s and D.O.'s all over the place and who do they report to exactly? I believe various brothers (and lawyers) have pointed out the danger of having a Catholic style chain of command and centralized leadership. This is a liability 'accident - waiting -to - happen'. In one desperate, money saving move, they will have made everything more centralized! More pressure to dump C.O.'s, perhaps?

    Oh, and potential language issues..... Brother Jimenez needs an answer right away for his Circuit, Brother Heindrich. He doesn't understand....

    Oh, and the potential for scandal..... Brother MouthClosed suddenly blabs to everyone about bribes and illegal currency exchanges they have been making. It seems he's upset about getting dumped after decades of service.....

    The Organization is stretched paper thin across the globe with minimal secular expertise after years of pushing out most anyone with critical reasoning ability. Cutting this any thinner is a recipe for disaster.

    We may be seeing partial motivation for the recent obsession with the 'faithful slave' and Governing Body in the magazines and talks. They have to pull their Theocratic Wehrmacht back across Europa (and elsewhere) - without triggering rebellion or realization emerging that their organizational idol is an increasingly false god.

    This is going to be really interesting....

    metatron

    M DaCheech posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:37:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 3891 of 6646
    Joined 5/13/2004

    blocks are fallling off their pyramid

    sabastious posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 00:48:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 458 of 9407
    Joined 2/3/2010

    I have always felt that the Society is an Organization built for a 10 year push stretched out over 120 years. I believe the founding fathers of the Society didn't care about the 'future' when they were creating their doctrine and policy because that wasn't the point. The POINT was that they were all going to be in Paradise very soon, but the "very soon" has been stretched out beyond what any of the old timers in the Org have ever imagined.

    -Sab

    M steve2 posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:09:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 3040 of 8639
    Joined 10/31/2004

    What do you do when everyone around you "ends" but "this wicked system of things" doesn't? There ain't no Plan B.

    designs posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 01:24:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 2211 of 19153
    Joined 6/17/2009

    Building a Real Estate empire was one of the things the original Bible Students avoided. They thought, and still do, that they should be ready for heaven and live simply.

    M moshe posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:33:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 4254 of 9085
    Joined 1/18/2005
    What do you do when everyone around you "ends" but "this wicked system of things" doesn't? There ain't no Plan B.

    There is no plan B, because, JWs don't want anything else. They want to continue to believe that they can cheat death, go through Armageddon and live

    forever on a Paradise Earth in a beautiful house (previous owners didn't make it) that they didn't have to work for.

    Do you think that the JWs will stick around once they are told, "the party is over?" Hardly. They got the 1914 generation extension, because JWs demanded it. Jehoobah refused to bring on the big battle, so adjustments had to be made on the timeline, just so they can continue with their 1914 hangover. JWs refuse to sober up to reality and fact the facts.

    M steve2 posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 03:26:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 3041 of 8639
    Joined 10/31/2004
    Do you think that the JWs will stick around once they are told, "the party is over?"

    Have you ever heard of learned helplessness? JWs have it big time. People only move on if they think there's somewhere else - and better - to go to. Why do many unhappy spouses stay in loveless marriages? Why do so many unhappy and complaining workers keep turning up for work? The quesation is not why so many have left, but why so many have stayed despite the writing on the wall. learned helplessness

    M ProdigalSon posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 04:00:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 114 of 2137
    Joined 4/15/2007

    Maybe they will just keep disfellowshipping everyone until there are only 2 elders left, and week after week they will sit there at the meetings and look at each other and think to themselves, "he who endures to the end is the ONE that will be saved....."

    ~PS

    M Wasanelder Once posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 05:38:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 2381 of 3195
    Joined 6/23/2005

    I think they are circling the wagons, condensing and taking a hardline on control. No more outbreaks of dissent. No more money spent on workers who are a liability. The GB is becoming the iron fist of the organization. It will all come from the big table they sit at and whomever is the dominant personality will rule the world. It's the same in the local congregations. I saw that to be true when I read CofC. It's the boys club. Runaway. I think it will implode eventually, crack and schisms will develop. It will be fun to see. It will all be a sign of how close the end is either way to the simpletons.

    M wobble posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:59:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 3274 of 5745
    Joined 2/20/2008

    It rather reminds me of what happened to a couple of other World domination plans in the past.

    Both Napoleon and Hitler stretched themselves too far, and then when they tried to pull back, they were too weak to fight the remaining battles, having lost the cream of their armed forces.

    What we see with the WT is desperate cost-cutting far too late, and the selling of assets far too late, the Legal and Money guys they take advice from seem to be not very prescient, perhaps the GB should plug them in to the "Noo Lite" source so they can make some pro-active moves, instead of the far too late re-active stuff they have always done.

    Trouble is, the GB knows that they do not have any words from Heaven that come to them, so no Light will shine on what financial moves are best for them.

    M Billy the Ex-Bethelite posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:51:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 2919 of 7263
    Joined 11/29/2007

    The branches were built with the expectation that things were going to grow, and grow, and grow, and armageddon was coming very soon. Although they report growth, it's only just about keeping up with general population growth for years now. Donations have decreased. Fewer magazine issues printed now. Fewer campaigns for different publications. It's all downsizing.

    20 years ago, Patterson was building and Brooklyn was expanding. Canada got a great big addition. Additions were planned for Wallkill. Everything was booming... until it stopped booming. The Canada additions mostly sat empty and unused. The great downsizing was begun and Brooklyn real estate began selling. More operations were moved up to Wallkill, and now more to Canada. Where's that fabulous growth that keeps the presses running around the clock?

    They can squeeze money out of their real estate. But for how long, and at what cost?

    agonus posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:56:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 1307 of 2518
    Joined 11/18/2009

    The WT stands to make, what, BILLIONS from their Brooklyn properties once the papers are signed? So why are they shutting everything down?

    Something in this gumbo tastes damn fishy!

    "Swiss bank accounts" comes to mind for some reason...

    M DaCheech posted Thu, 02 Sep 2010 23:49:00 GMT(9/2/2010)

    Post 3893 of 6646
    Joined 5/13/2004

    they are planning on getting cash flow from renting the rooms ala hotel style

    LV101 posted Fri, 03 Sep 2010 00:51:00 GMT(9/3/2010)

    Post 29 of 1793
    Joined 5/25/2005

    With billions (from sale of property), free labor and stealing of estates off the aging baby boomers --- can't they last? Even with God's gift of truth of the internet, adherents won't leave their life-long friends and fantasies - right.

    Any positive views that it will crumble --- any REAL HOPE?

    NV1

    metatron posted Fri, 03 Sep 2010 01:54:00 GMT(9/3/2010)

    Post 5281 of 7449
    Joined 4/7/2001

    There is a degree of mystery in these moves. They have some growth and enthusiasm in the Caribbean and Central America and so on and yet they shortchange them? Really? Why? To pull cash back to the US while screwing over the locals?

    The real estate market in the US is poor - but isn't dumping Brooklyn property the better choice? Or dumping the Awake?

    or are they simply that mercenary and cold hearted about it? Hold Brooklyn until the price goes up, we don't care about 3rd world growth - with their mere pennies while millions are to be made here. Sorry, Brothers, we need the cash and you don't count.

    metatron

    LV101 posted Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:05:00 GMT(9/3/2010)

    Post 30 of 1793
    Joined 5/25/2005

    Metatron --- I've always enjoyed your posts when i've time to check out this site. THEY GIVE ME HOPE! I hope they have to liquidate Brooklyn in this pathetic market but with billions to maneuver surely they can hang on. Maybe they'll choke w/the cash flow situation.

    NV1

    M jwfacts posted Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:18:00 GMT(9/3/2010)

    Post 5352 of 8013
    Joined 6/25/2005

    I have always felt that the Society is an Organization built for a 10 year push stretched out over 120 years.

    Great comment Sab.

    cameo-d posted Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:44:00 GMT(9/3/2010)

    Post 6195 of 6842
    Joined 7/30/2008

    LV101: "Any positive views that it will crumble --- any REAL HOPE?"

    Pyramids crumble when the cornerstone of its foundation falls out first.

    What is it's foundation? Membership? Real estate?

    Looks like both of those things have tanked.

    It's on the way out. It won't be much longer.

    After all, Armageddon is a "spiritual battle": it's a war for your mind.

    Sure, there will always be a few loyal die-hards who will never leave. But we are promised that everyone will have had the opportunity to know the Truth before the end comes. Having the opportunity and pursuing it are two different things. Those that remain will be those who "did not love the truth" and instead followed the dictates of man.

    Truth is not something that will ever be published in a magazine with an agenda of control, power, and greed.

    agonus posted Fri, 03 Sep 2010 02:48:00 GMT(9/3/2010)

    Post 1331 of 2518
    Joined 11/18/2009

    Someone mentioned on another post that the "control ratcheting" in the literature usually preceded an exodus, i.e. 1975 and 1995. If there's another exodus it'll probably be the last one before they shutter the shop.

    metatron posted Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:51:00 GMT(9/3/2010)

    Post 5282 of 7449
    Joined 4/7/2001

    The other odd aspect of this concerns their authority to do it, both legally and in practical terms. I thought that , years ago, Maximus said the Branch structure of the organization was changed significantly, so that they could be sort of independent. So, the Watchtower Society in the US owns these outright? And can dump them with no one local to say 'stop'?

    Secondly, how do they order up a kamikaze mission? "Dear Brothers, pack your bags and shut it down, then send us the check after you sell it off. Don't worry. "Jehovah will provide" We appreciate your decades of fanatical service, blah, blah, blah, f**k you, Your brothers, the Governing Body.'

    And this after all of the backchannel accounts of laid off Bethelites suffering in hopeless poverty, after what the Governing Body did to them.

    I wonder how that works. Like the song says, "there's something happening here - what it is ain't exactly clear".

    metatron

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