Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-13-10 WT Study (HOLY SPIRIT)

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    F blondie posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 14:23:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

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    Joined 5/28/2001

    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 06-13-10 WT Study (April 15, 2010, pages 7-11 (PURPOSE)

    Review comments will be in red or headed by COMMENTS

    WT material from today's WT will be in black

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    HOLY SPIRIT’S ROLE IN THE OUTWORKING OF JEHOVAH’S PURPOSE

    “My word that goes forth from my mouth . . . will have certain success in that for which I have sent it.” — Isa. 55:11.

    OPENING COMMENTS

    This article is a mishmash of points, but paragraphs 13 and 14 have been much discussed as the “new” definition of what a generation is. Note though there is no scripture used that addresses the overlapping concept. Should it be accepted then? Are the WTS publications and its statements on par with bible?

    START OF ARTICLE

    1. Illustrate the difference between a plan and a purpose.

    IMAGINE that two men are each preparing to take a trip by car. One maps out a specific, detailed path to his destination. The other has his destination clearly in mind, but he also knows many alternate routes. He is prepared to adjust his course as necessary to deal with any contingency. In some respects, the different approaches of these two men illustrates the distinction between a plan and a purpose. A plan might be compared to mapping out a detailed path, whereas a purpose may involve having in mind a goal but not necessarily one specific manner of reaching it.

    COMMENTS

    In the early days of Russell and the Watchtower Society, the concept of a “plan” was very prominent. The first volume of the Studies in the Scriptures was named “The Divine PLAN (my emphasis) of the Ages” published in 1886. These books were used well into the 1920’s as the basis of teaching and study.

    With the development of the New World Translation starting around 1950, a whole new vocabulary was formed, one of which was the change at Ephesians 3:11 from “plan” to “purpose.” A whole book was even developed called the Eternal Purpose book which was a hot orange but never a hot book door to door. It was one of the more boring books I ever had to sit through as a teenage jw. I’m sure most congregations still have many in their inventory that they try to get rid of every January.

    The word “purpose” allows the WTS more leeway to make “clarifications” and “adjustments” or to tack.

    QUOTES

    *** w8112/1p.27par.2ThePathoftheRighteousDoesKeepGettingBrighter***

    However, it may have seemed to some as though that path has not always gone straight forward. At times explanations given by Jehovah’s visible organization have shown adjustments, seemingly to previous points of view. But this has not actually been the case. This might be compared to what is known in navigational circles as “tacking.” By maneuvering the sails the sailors can cause a ship to go from right to left, back and forth, but all the time making progress toward their destination in spite of contrary winds.

    Has the WTS put forth an explanation, changed it, and then gone back to the original teaching?

    SUPERIOR AUTHORITIES

    Superior Authorities (Romans 13:1)...-1886 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
    [Studies in the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages (1886 edition) page 250]

    -1916 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
    [Studies in the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages (1916 edition) page 266]

    -1929 = Jehovah God and Jesus Christ
    [Watchtower June 1 and June 15, 1929]

    -1950 = Jehovah God and Jesus Christ
    [This Means Everlasting Life (1950) page 197]

    -1962 = Worldly Governments or Authorities
    [Babylon the Great Has Fallen! God's Kingdom Rules! (1962) page 548]

    RESURRECTION OF PEOPLE KILLED AT SODOM AND GOMORRAH

    http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/sodomites.html

    http://www.cftf.com/comments/blinking.html

    • 1879 - Will be resurrected
    • 1955 - Will not be resurrected
    • 1965 - Will be resurrected
    • 1967 - Will not be resurrected
    • 1974 - Will be resurrected
    • 1988 - Will not be resurrected
    • 1988 - Will be resurrected
    • 1989 - Will not be resurrected

    ORGAN TRANSPLANTS

    Up til 1967 allowed, conscience matter

    1967—1980 not allowed, cannibalism, basis for df’ing

    1980—allowed, conscience matter again (note in 1980 QFR to elders that jws who have transplants should not be df’d)

    2, 3. (a) What does Jehovah’s purpose involve, and how did he meet the situation that arose when Adam and Eve sinned? (b) Why should we be attuned to the unfolding of Jehovah’s purpose?

    2 When it comes to carrying out his will, Jehovah has, not a fixed plan, but an unfolding purpose. (Eph. 3:11) This purpose involves what he originally intended for mankind and the earth — that this globe be turned into a paradise home, where perfect humans can live in peace and happiness forever. (Gen. 1:28) When Adam and Eve sinned, Jehovah met that situation and made arrangements to ensure that his purpose would be accomplished. (Read Genesis 3:15.) Jehovah determined that his symbolic woman would bring forth a “seed,” or Son, who would eventually destroy the instigator, Satan, and undo all the harm he has caused. — Heb. 2:14; 1 John 3:8.

    COMMENTS

    Note though that God changed that purpose to have all humans live on earth that per the WTS, 144,000 humans will be living forever in heaven, immortal.

    The WTS teaches that the 144,000 are part of the seed, secondary, and that while in heaven they will help Jesus destroy Satan.

    What does the WTS mean when they say “eventually destroy” Satan? The WTS teaches that Satan will live on confined for 1,000 years before his destruction, while little babies with non-jw parents will die eternally right away at Armageddon, though they have not sinned as Satan has.

    *** w5610/15p.639QuestionsFromReaders***Only the invisible heavenly forces with Christ, including the resurrected anointed ones, fight at Armageddon and dash the nations to pieces like a potter’s vessel.—2 Cor. 10:3-5, NW.

    3 No power in heaven or on earth can prevent God’s expressed purpose from being realized. (Isa. 46:9-11) Why can we say that? Because Jehovah’s holy spirit is involved. That irresistible force guarantees that God’s purpose “will have certain success.” (Isa. 55:10, 11) We do well to keep fully attuned to the unfolding of God’s purpose. Our future life prospects depend on its fulfillment. In addition, it is faith-strengthening to see how Jehovah uses holy spirit. Let us, then, consider the spirit’s role — in the past, at present, and in the future — in the outworking of Jehovah’s purpose.

    COMMENTS

    No one can stop….is that a way of saying that because God stronger he will prevail, not because he is right?

    “fully attuned” requires close association with the WTS…there is no salvation apart from it because it is the only way to Christ and God. Did Jeremiah believe that the corrupt religious system of his time was the way, did Isaiah?

    “future life prospects” = CARROT

    Holy Spirit’s Role in the Past

    4. How has Jehovah gradually revealed his purpose?

    4 In Bible times, Jehovah gradually revealed his purpose. At first, the identity of the promised Seed was “a sacred secret.” (1 Cor. 2:7) Not until some 2,000 years later did Jehovah again make reference to a seed. (Read Genesis 12:7; 22:15-18.) To Abraham, Jehovah gave an expanded promise. The words “by means of your seed” were a clear indication that the Seed would come as a human, a descendant of Abraham. We can be sure that Satan was watching with great interest as this detail was unveiled. That Adversary no doubt wanted nothing more than to destroy or corrupt Abraham’s line of descent and thus frustrate God’s purpose. But such an outcome was impossible, for God’s unseen spirit was at work. In what ways?

    COMMENTS

    GRADUALLY—EXPANDED—SECRET—NO DOUBT buzzwords

    Was Jesus only the seed? Weren’t anointed Christians said to be part of that?

    But then God did not save the other 11 tribes, only Judah, while he allowed Judean king Manasseh to burn his children in the fire.

    Isn’t the previous WT idea that “plan” was too detailed yet God is handing out details?

    5, 6. How did Jehovah use his spirit to protect individuals in the line of descent leading up to the Seed?

    5 Jehovah used his spirit to protect individuals in the line of descent leading up to the Seed. To Abram (Abraham), Jehovah said: “I am a shield for you.” (Gen. 15:1) Those were not empty words. Consider, for example, what happened about 1919 B.C.E. when Abraham and Sarah took up temporary residence in Gerar. Not knowing that Sarah was Abraham’s wife, Abimelech, the king of Gerar, took Sarah with the intention of making her his wife. Was Satan manipulating matters behind the scenes, trying to prevent Sarah from bearing Abraham’s seed? The Bible does not say. What it does tell us is that Jehovah intervened. In a dream, he warned Abimelech not to touch Sarah. — Gen. 20:1-18.

    COMMENTS

    Should jws expect God to protect individual jws today? Did Abraham have faith that God would protect him and his family because of the promise regarding his seed? Then why did Abraham deceive Abimelech saying his wife was his sister deliberately not mentioning she was his wife because he was afraid he’d be killed?

    (Genesis 20:1-5) . . .Now Abraham moved camp from there to the land of the Neg′eb and took up dwelling between Ka′desh and Shur and residing as an alien at Ge′rar. 2 And Abraham repeated concerning Sarah his wife: “She is my sister.” With that A·bim′e·lech king of Ge′rar sent and took Sarah. 3 Afterward God came to A·bim′e·lech in a dream by night and said to him: “Here you are as good as dead because of the woman whom you have taken, since she is owned by another owner as his wife.” 4 However, A·bim′e·lech had not gone near her. Hence he said: “Jehovah, will you kill a nation that is really righteous? 5 Did not he say to me, ‘She is my sister’? and she—did not she too say, ‘He is my brother’? In the honesty of my heart and with innocency of my hands I have done this.”

    Many times the WTS ask a question to make a point, but then say “the Bible does not say.”

    *** w092/1p.24JosiahChosetoDoWhatWasRight***The Bible does not say how much contact Manasseh had with his grandson Josiah. But do you think that Manasseh might have tried to help him to serve Jehovah?—

    *** w089/15p.9par.8JehovahIs“theProviderofEscape”forUs***As individuals, we know that our immediate physical protection is not guaranteed. We take the position expressed by the three faithful Hebrews who refused to bow down to King Nebuchadnezzar’s image of gold. Those God-fearing young men did not presume that Jehovah would miraculously protect them from physical harm.

    *** w756/15p.377par.10LookingtotheFuturewithConfidence***

    Should we expect, moreover, that because Jehovah is on our side he will miraculously intervene to protect each one of us personally from death or injury during the “great tribulation”? Both Psalm 91:7-12 and Proverbs 3:25, 26 have been mistakenly cited by some as supporting this view.

    6 That was not just an isolated incident. Jehovah delivered Abraham and his family members on a number of occasions. (Gen. 12:14-20; 14:13-20; 26:26-29) Regarding Abraham and his descendants, the psalmist could therefore say: “He [Jehovah] did not allow any human to defraud them, but on their account he reproved kings, saying: ‘Do not you men touch my anointed ones, and to my prophets do nothing bad.’” — Ps. 105:14, 15.

    COMMENTS

    So why did God allow these things to happen to Abraham, to deliver him after it happened?

    God has not protected individual anointed, why not?

    So nothing bad was done to prophets Jeremiah and Isaiah, one thrown down a well and left to die, the other sawn asunder.

    7. In what ways did Jehovah protect the nation of Israel?

    7 By means of his spirit, Jehovah protected the ancient nation of Israel, into which the promised Seed would be born. Through his spirit, Jehovah gave Israel his Law, which preserved true worship and protected the Jews from spiritual, moral, and physical contamination. (Ex. 31:18; 2 Cor. 3:3) In the time of the Judges, Jehovah’s spirit empowered certain men to deliver Israel from its enemies. (Judg. 3:9, 10) During the centuries leading up to the birth of Jesus, the primary part of Abraham’s seed, holy spirit must have been involved in protecting Jerusalem, Bethlehem, and the temple — all of which would play a part in the fulfillment of the prophecies about Jesus.

    COMMENTS

    Did God protect the 10 tribes…he allowed them to be captured and deported permanently?

    Only the tribe of Judah and Benjamin, because the promised was only to Judah, not to the ten.

    MUST HAVE = we don’t have scriptural proof but……….was the temple protected or destroyed.

    Empowered only men, what role did Deborah play in regard to Barak?

    (Judges 4:4-10) . . .Now Deb′o·rah, a prophetess, the wife of Lap′pi·doth, was judging Israel at that particular time. 5 And she was dwelling under Deb′o·rah’s palm tree between Ra′mah and Beth′el in the mountainous region of E′phra·im; and the sons of Israel would go up to her for judgment. 6 And she proceeded to send and call Ba′rak the son of A·bin′o·am out of Ke′desh-naph′ta·li and to say to him: “Has not Jehovah the God of Israel given the command? ‘Go and you must spread yourself out on Mount Ta′bor, and you must take with you ten thousand men out of the sons of Naph′ta·li and out of the sons of Zeb′u·lun. 7 And I shall certainly draw to you at the torrent valley of Ki′shon Sis′e·ra the chief of Ja′bin’s army and his war chariots and his crowd, and I shall indeed give him into your hand.’” 8 At this Ba′rak said to her: “If you will go with me, I also shall certainly go; but if you will not go with me, I shall not go.”9 To this she said: “Without fail I shall go with you. Just the same, the beautifying thing will not become yours on the way that you are going, for it will be into the hand of a woman that Jehovah will sell Sis′e·ra.” With that Deb′o·rah got up and went with Ba′rak to Ke′desh. 10 And Ba′rak began to call Zeb′u·lun and Naph′ta·li together to Ke′desh, and ten thousand men went on up following his steps; and Deb′o·rah went on up with him.

    8. What shows that holy spirit was directly involved in the life and ministry of God’s Son?

    8 Holy spirit was directly involved in the life and ministry of Jesus. Operating in the womb of the virgin Mary, holy spirit accomplished something never done before or since. It caused an imperfect woman to conceive and give birth to a perfect Son, who was not under the penalty of death. (Luke 1:26-31, 34, 35) The spirit later protected the infant Jesus from premature death. (Matt. 2:7, 8, 12, 13) When Jesus was about 30, God anointed him with holy spirit, appointing him to be the heir to David’s throne and commissioning him to preach. (Luke 1:32, 33; 4:16-21) Holy spirit empowered Jesus to perform miracles, including healing the sick, feeding the crowds, and raising the dead. Such mighty acts were foregleams of the blessings we can expect under Jesus’ kingly rule.

    COMMENTS

    How was Jesus born human? Was Mary inseminated with perfect sperm by God? What about her egg and its imperfect DNA? Was Jesus really half perfect and half imperfect regarding his DNA? The egg had to be from Mary or Jesus would neither be truly human or a descendant of David by birth, not adoption through Joseph.

    While Jesus was protected from premature death, what about all the baby boys that Herod put to death, no individual protection for them.

    9, 10. (a) How was holy spirit in evidence upon Jesus’ first-century disciples? (b) What development in the outworking of Jehovah’s purpose was revealed in the first century C.E.?

    9 Starting at Pentecost 33 C.E., Jehovah used his spirit to anoint the secondary part of the seed of Abraham, many of whom were not descendants of Abraham. (Rom. 8:15-17; Gal. 3:29) Holy spirit was in evidence upon Jesus’ first-century disciples, enabling them to preach with zeal and empowering them to perform powerful works. (Acts 1:8; 2:1-4; 1 Cor. 12:7-11) By means of those miraculous gifts, holy spirit revealed a striking development in the outworking of Jehovah’s purpose. Jehovah was no longer using the centuries-old arrangement for worship that centered on the temple in Jerusalem. His favor had shifted to the newly formed Christian congregation. Ever since, Jehovah has been using that anointed congregation to serve his purpose.

    COMMENTS

    Then if many were not descendants, it was only required that Jesus be such.

    Powerful works…miraculous gifts revealed a striking development—not preaching? Who were the anointed congregation from 100 C.E. to 1879 C.E.?

    10 Protecting, empowering, anointing — these are just a few of the ways that Jehovah used the holy spirit in Bible times to keep his purpose moving ever forward toward its fulfillment. What, though, about our day? How is Jehovah now using his spirit in support of his purpose? We need to know, for we want to work in harmony with the spirit. Let us, then, consider four of the ways in which Jehovah is using his spirit at present.

    COMMENTS

    Does God protect the anointed as individuals today, the non-anointed jws?

    Work in harmony with the spirit = working with the WTS only = does the spirit come through the WTS?

    Holy Spirit’s Role at Present

    11. What shows that the holy spirit is a force for cleanness among God’s people, and how can you show that you are cooperating with the spirit?

    11 First, holy spirit is a force for cleanness among God’s people. Those who play a part in Jehovah’s purpose must be morally clean. (Read 1 Corinthians 6:9-11.) Some who become true Christians formerly engaged in such immoral practices as fornication, adultery, and homosexuality. The desires that give birth to sinful acts can be deeply entrenched. (Jas. 1:14, 15) Yet, such individuals have been “washed clean,” indicating that they have made the changes in their life needed to please God. What enables a lover of God to resist successfully the impulse to act on wrong desires? “The spirit of our God,” says 1 Corinthians 6:11. By keeping morally clean, you show that you are letting that spirit be a dominant force in your life.

    COMMENTS

    TRUE Christians = only jws

    God’s people = only jws

    Please God = please WT organization

    Fornication, adultery, homosexuality…… (but no mention of pedophilia)

    12. (a ) According to Ezekiel’s vision, how does Jehovah lead his organization? (b) How can you show that you are working in harmony with the spirit?

    12 Second, Jehovah uses his spirit to lead his organization in the direction that he wants it to go. In Ezekiel’s vision, the heavenly part of Jehovah’s organization is depicted as a celestial chariot that is irresistibly on the move to fulfill Jehovah’s purpose. What impels the chariot to move in a certain direction? Holy spirit. (Ezek. 1:20, 21) Let us remember that Jehovah’s organization is made up of two parts, one in heaven and the other on earth. If the heavenly part is directed by holy spirit, the same must be true of the earthly part. By being obedient and loyal to the direction received from the earthly part of God’s organization, you show that you are keeping pace with Jehovah’s celestial chariot and are working in harmony with his holy spirit. — Heb. 13:17.

    COMMENTS

    Did you know that the word “organization” is not in the bible, neither is “governing body” or “trinity”?

    Working in harmony with his holy spirit-by doing what the WTS says, wrong or right

    13, 14. (a) Who make up “this generation” mentioned by Jesus? (b) Give an example showing that the holy spirit is at work in bringing Bible truths to light. (See the box “Are You Keeping Up With Increased Light?”)

    13 Third, holy spirit is at work in bringing Bible truths to light. (Prov. 4:18) This magazine has long been used by “the faithful and discreet slave” as the primary channel for dispensing increased light. (Matt. 24:45) For example, consider our understanding of those who make up “this generation” mentioned by Jesus. (Read Matthew 24:32-34.) To what generation did Jesus refer? The article “Christ’s Presence — What Does It Mean to You?” explained that Jesus was referring, not to the wicked, but to his disciples, who were soon to be anointed with holy spirit. * Jesus’ anointed followers, both in the first century and in our day, would be the ones who would not only see the sign but also discern its meaning — that Jesus “is near at the doors.”

    COMMENTS

    Finally, the paragraphs everyone was waiting for. Feel free to look at the many threads on this. After showing the flipflops from the past (and leaving quite a few out), this should be no big surprise. I mean how many times were the people Sodom and Gomorrah in and out of Gehenna?

    How does the holy spirit reveal “bible truths” to the governing body of jws? Is it revealed to one or two or more as they do their personal study. Re-reading Ray Franz’ books, I realized how few of them do any real study and why so few qualify to write books and/or articles. How do they hammer out the differences in viewpoint? Is it a political type thing with voting blocks? Does God govern heaven with a majority vote prevailing?

    Notice that the source of the “light” is “this magazine” not the bible. What scripture(s) even talk about an overlapping generation. Did the early Christians expect a long time period or did they expect the fulfillment in their lifetime not 2,000 plus years in the future. Do you think they got the point that the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 C.E. was it?

    How many jws realize that until 1943, the WTS taught that Christ’s presence began in 1874 not 1914? The title of the WT was the one below until 1939.

    ***Proclaimers book jvp.724PublishingTheWatchtower***When first produced, in July 1879, it was called Zion’sWatchTowerandHeraldofChrist’sPresence. This magazine, which was a champion of the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, was published to serve spiritual food to the household of faith. On January 1, 1909, the title was changed to TheWatchTowerandHeraldofChrist’sPresence, in order to focus attention more clearly on the objective of the magazine. As of January 1, 1939, putting increased emphasis on the fact that Christ was already ruling from heaven as King, the title was altered to read TheWatchtowerandHeraldofChrist’sKingdom. Then on March 1, 1939, by changing the title to TheWatchtowerAnnouncingJehovah’sKingdom, attention was directed more prominently to Jehovah as the Universal Sovereign, the one who gave ruling authority to his Son.

    14 What does this explanation mean to us? Although we cannot measure the exact length of “this generation,” we do well to keep in mind several things about the word “generation”: It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6) How, then, are we to understand Jesus’ words about “this generation”? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit. — Mark 13:37.

    COMMENTS

    Can’t measure the length of a generation? But of course we did/do, the WTS told us. So many jws thought it would come in 1984 or 1994 at the latest, until the WT pulled the rug out on that in 1995 (which many jws still don’t get).

    *** w6812/1p.715PuttingFirstthePreachingoftheGoodNews***Besides, did not Jesus say that this generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled? A generation, according to Psalm 90:10, is from seventy to eighty years. The generation that witnessed the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 does not have many more years left.—Luke 21:24, 32-36.

    USUALLY refers to people of varying ages …(so when doesn’t it?)

    OVERLAP….so if sister so-and-so is 86 and my child is 1, is that an overlap? No because my child is not anointed. So my child would have to be 6 (the youngest age I ever saw someone baptized, and anointed (what a hoot a 6-year-old anointed drinking wine at the memorial). So that means 78 years more to string out the time of the end?

    EVIDENTLY = THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY

    NEAR – URGENCY = 78 YEARS?

    ADVANCING LIGHT = Is this like the superior authorities doctrine?

    LEADINGS OF HOLY = LEADINGS OF THE GB = OBEY THEM EVEN IF THEY ARE WRONG

    15. What shows that it is holy spirit that empowers us to declare the good news?

    15 Fourth, holy spirit empowers us to declare the good news. (Acts 1:8) What else could explain how the good news has been preached earth wide? Think about it. You may be among those who, perhaps because of extreme shyness or apprehension, once thought, ‘I could never go preaching from house to house!’ Yet, you now have a zealous share in that work. # Many faithful Witnesses of Jehovah have continued preaching in the face of opposition or persecution. Only God’s holy spirit can empower us to overcome daunting obstacles and to do things that would be impossible in our own strength. (Mic. 3:8; Matt. 17:20) By having a full share in the preaching work, you show that you are cooperating with that spirit.

    COMMENTS

    What is the good news that jws preach….the destruction of all human governments and non-jws *including babies?

    Did Jesus say his followers would be witnesses of Jehovah or witnesses of him? Of Jesus (Acts 1:8)?

    Has the jw good news been preached worldwide? What is their interpretation?

    *** w001/15p.13par.17“KeepontheWatch”***Fifth,weseeaglobalpreachingworkbeingaccomplished,whichJesussaidwouldtakeplacejustbeforetheendofthissystem. Jesus stated: “This good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:14) Today, that prophecy is in the course of fulfillment on an unprecedented scale. True, untouched territories still exist, and it may be that in Jehovah’s due time, a large door leading to greater activity will open. (1 Corinthians 16:9) Nevertheless, the Bible does not state that Jehovah will wait until every individual on earth has received a personal witness. Rather, the good news must be preached to Jehovah’s satisfaction. Then the end will come.—Compare Matthew 10:23.

    *** km1/02p.1par.5‘HowWillTheyHear?’***On how much greater a scale the witness work is yet to be done, we do not know. Jehovah is responsible for this work and is using his angels to oversee it. (Rev. 14:6, 7) He is the one to determine to what extent the witness is to be given to all the nations. If Jehovah chooses, he can see that the Kingdom message is spread in ways that we cannot yet imagine so that many more people may “hear the word of the good news and believe.” (Acts 15:7) What Jehovah does will be in full harmony with who he is—a loving, wise, and just God.

    *** w9510/15p.28par.23WhatFuturefortheSheepandtheGoats?***Many are exposed to our message as we preach from house to house or informally. Others may learn of Jehovah’s Witnesses and what we represent in ways unknown to us. When judgment time arrives, to what extent will Jesus consider community responsibility and family merit? We cannot say, and it is pointless to speculate. (Compare 1 Corinthians 7:14.)

    Holy Spirit’s Role in the Future

    16. Why can we be confident that Jehovah will protect his people during the great tribulation?

    16 In the future, Jehovah will employ his holy spirit in remarkable ways to accomplish the fulfillment of his purpose. Consider first the matter of protection. As we have seen, Jehovah used his spirit in the past to protect individuals as well as the nation of Israel as a whole. Hence, we have every reason to believe that he will use that same powerful spirit to protect his people during the approaching great tribulation. We need not speculate about exactly how Jehovah will care for us then. Rather, we can look to the future with confidence, knowing that lovers of Jehovah will never be hidden from his view or beyond the reach of his holy spirit. — 2 Chron. 16:9; Ps. 139:7-12.

    COMMENTS

    So why doesn’t the WTS use radio and television and the internet in ways to reach the millions in China and India?

    Why doesn’t God protect individuals today?

    Do jws know that the WTS has said that some of them will die during the great tribulation and be resurrected later…having had their opportunity to get married and/or have children ripped away? Is that speculation?

    17. How will Jehovah use his holy spirit in the new world?

    17 How will Jehovah use his holy spirit in the coming new world? That spirit will be the force behind the new scrolls that will be opened at that time. (Rev. 20:12) What will these contain? Evidently, Jehovah’s detailed requirements for us during the thousand years. Do you look forward to examining the contents of those scrolls? With eager anticipation, we await that new world. We cannot begin to imagine what it will be like to be living at that blessed time when Jehovah will use his holy spirit to fulfill his purpose for the earth and humankind upon it.

    COMMENTS

    Coming new world = without on jws in it

    New scrolls = so how do humans on earth get these scrolls; how will people on earth know for sure they came from God?

    Detailed requirements = like the Talmud

    EVIDENTLY = the bible does not say but WE will tell you

    18. What is your firm determination?

    18 Let us never forget that Jehovah’s unfolding purpose is certain to succeed, for he uses his holy spirit — the most powerful force in the universe — to carry it out. That purpose involves you. Therefore, let it be your firm determination to supplicate Jehovah for his spirit and work in harmony with its leadings. (Luke 11:13) Thus you may have the prospect of living as Jehovah purposed humans to live — forever in Paradise on earth.

    COMMENTS

    Where was Jesus in the article?

    Harmony with its leadings = do what the WTS says even if there is no bible scripture to back it up

    CARROT = forever in Paradise on earth (a phrase not found in the bible)

    Do You Recall?

    • In what ways did Jehovah use his holy spirit in Bible times to keep his purpose moving forward?

    • How is Jehovah using his spirit at present?

    • How will Jehovah employ his spirit in the future to accomplish the fulfillment of his purpose?

    ___________

    * See The Watchtower, February 15, 2008, pages 21-25.

    # For an example of one who overcame extreme shyness and became zealous in the ministry, see The Watchtower, September 15, 1993, page 19.

    CLOSING COMMENTS

    Next week, “Turn Your Eyes Away from Worthless Things!” Can you guess, education, and pornography?

    Love, Blondie

    designs posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 14:31:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 1464 of 19094
    Joined 6/17/2009

    Well they did quote from Luke

    Like the Bishops before them they can reedit the Bible at will and make pontifical pronouncements. The new Popes of Geneva, ain't it wonderful...

    man in black posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 14:47:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 197 of 593
    Joined 3/10/2010

    thank you

    not a captive posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 15:08:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 567 of 722
    Joined 3/28/2010

    Awesome. I've avoided this weekly thread for two months.

    This is the closest I've been to the WT in over a year--except to throw them in the dumpster when I find them..

    Blondie, your work in producing this commentary is amazing to me--like a forensic specialist doing an autopsie to establish what killed the victim. It gives me the creeps to think of sitting in the KH as I used to do, and actually trying to make sense of this.

    I think you are doing something great here--and not something many of us could stomach even though it is a great public service.

    So I hope you washed your hands afterward and had a stiff drink. Maeve

    M OnTheWayOut posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 15:30:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 11190 of 18400
    Joined 9/8/2006

    1. Illustrate the difference between a plan and a purpose.

    I lump this type of WT-reasoning in with their air of superiority. They like to distract the members with their so-called "knowledge" of the stuff that is so trivial so that the members will believe they are so much more well-informed than outsiders and have special "knowledge." The real difference is so minor between "plan" and "purpose" just like the real difference between "inspired" and "spirit-directed" is even less than minor.

    The word “purpose” allows the WTS more leeway to make “clarifications” and “adjustments” or to tack.

    Yes, good point. Just like "spirit-directed" allows leeway. "Jehovah didn't directly tell us what to write, so we 'improve' it with a clearer understanding every now and again."

    5

    COMMENTS

    Should jws expect God to protect individual jws today? Did Abraham have faith that God would protect him and his family because of the promise regarding his seed? Then why did Abraham deceive Abimelech saying his wife was his sister deliberately not mentioning she was his wife because he was afraid he’d be killed?

    WT likes to use such examples for their own purposes (plans?). It shows that members can be dishonest with outsiders when it benefits "God's people." Members are supposed to have faith ultimately in Jehovah, but not expect miracles. Really though, Abraham caused the problem to begin with by deceiving Abimelech.

    7. In what ways did Jehovah protect the nation of Israel?

    COMMENTS

    Did God protect the 10 tribes…he allowed them to be captured and deported permanently?

    Good point. So maybe JW's have a 2-in-12 chance (1-in-6) of Jah's protection. Maybe less as average members are not really an integral part of any prophecy. JW's outside of the anointed are on their own.

    F yknot posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 15:43:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 7260 of 9299
    Joined 8/24/2007

    We have the afternoon slot at the KH and I am filled with such anxiety (good and bad).

    I too was thinking of that 'tacking' comment but could only remember the gist and couldn't find it on the CD. I am glad you did!

    I am grateful that you continue to provide this commentary every week!

    This week for me it is going to be a 'lifesaver'....

    booby posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:05:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 407 of 967
    Joined 5/25/2005

    Well, once again by reviewing your "review" it helps to see other "stuff". I thought from looking at this material, or study, early on and narrowing to the incredible generation debacle that's what would stand out as the meat. However by looking at the study further I found that there was other stuff just as silly. So right from the start we have the plan versus purpose. So Jehovah has/had a purpose which he could "tack" as needed when satan thwarted his (ideas I guess) which resulted in the death of adam and his wife, caused the delay of spreading the edenic garden globally at that time, etc. But then when he starts to implement his (idea I guess) to fix the problem, it becomes a plan apparently. It certainly appears that it changed to a plan since each effort to thwart this new idea was not tacked around, it was stopped or overcome often very forcefully. Anyway for me these articles are getting dumb and dumber. I noticed to how they throw attention off this new unexplainable light by saying "look at the box on the left and see if you have been keeping up with these other absurd postulations" and surely if you bought into those you should be okay with this new generation thingy. Just my two bits worth.

    Ultimate Reality posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:06:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 143 of 220
    Joined 1/23/2008

    Thanks Blondie! I actually wish I was at the WT Study today. I am sure that by the time paragraphs 13 and 14 roll around, no one will know what hit them because their minds will already be tied in knots.

    cantleave posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:07:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 3334 of 13236
    Joined 6/25/2009

    Thanks Blondie.

    EmptyInside posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:47:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 358 of 1887
    Joined 9/26/2009

    Thank you Blondie.

    The conductor at my hall today focused on being "attuned" to the way the organization is going. And someone made the comment we must accept this new light, even if, it may be hard to understand it. We must follow the direction of the faithful and discreet slave without question. Then the Watchtower conductor added to the comment, It shows how spiritually mature we are. Oh, my, is all I have to add.

    M BluesBrother posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 16:51:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 6072 of 8567
    Joined 10/29/2001

    I was at the study.....It was the prospect of a ruined weekend at home with Sister Blues that prevented me from commenting on the crass stupidity and the blind sheep like mentality of them all.....So discretion won, over valour.....

    To start the meeting they sang one of the new songs ( I don't sing) 116 "The Light Gets Brighter", chorus

    Our path now becomes ever brighter, we walk in the full light of day

    Behold what our God is revealing, He guides us each step of the way

    So it is "from God" ...Was it not from God when they gave the last explanation, or two? Does God mislead them ? There is no other conclusion if it were from God

    They remind us in para 12 that "By being obedient and loyal to the direction received from the earthly part of God’s organization, you show that you are keeping pace with Jehovah’s celestial chariot and are working in harmony with his holy spirit.

    So you had better accept it, or be disloyal to God ! We have said a lot about the generation comments - only a sheep would believe it.....suffice to say that I am bemused that one generation of observers of 1914 and the next generation of overlappers, still equals one generation....??? No matter, para 14 reminds us that "The tribulation must be near "

    BTW the congo discussed the box that listed other "Increased light" in recent years. They all said that they had not known those things. It seems that comments in the mags pass them by unless they are highlighted in colour. Perhaps they should keep up with us on J W N !

    "

    sherah posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:11:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 142 of 610
    Joined 9/15/2009

    Thanks Blondie, your comments are dead on.

    I'm visiting family this weekend and went to their meeting. The tone for the study with one of the songs "Light Get Brighter". This Sunday was no different from any other Sunday. Although i didn't sense any shock or confusion when the 'nu lite' paragraphs were read, no one raised their hand to comment on them either. Two elders gave their comments, short and to the point. They covered the 'nu lite' box and moved on.

    F Mary posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:17:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 11493 of 12750
    Joined 6/26/2002
    Although we cannot measure the exact length of "this generation," we do well to keep in mind several things about the word "generation": It usually refers to people of varying ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period; it is not excessively long; and it has an end. (Ex. 1:6) How, then, are we to understand Jesus' words about "this generation"? He evidently meant that the lives of the anointed who were on hand when the sign began to become evident in 1914 would overlap with the lives of other anointed ones who would see the start of the great tribulation. That generation had a beginning, and it surely will have an end. The fulfillment of the various features of the sign clearly indicate that the tribulation must be near. By maintaining your sense of urgency and keeping on the watch, you show that you are keeping up with advancing light and following the leadings of holy spirit. - Mark 13:37.

    And as we have all discussed on here the last few months, it is well noted (at least by us) that whoever wrote this tripe could not provide one, single scripture to support this nonsense. Of course, the word "evidently", covers a multitude of false predictions made by these goons, and is quickly discarded whenever their prophecies fail to materialize. Which happens 100% of the time. It's easy for many JWs to dismiss the Borg's failed predictions in days gone by, and accept this noo lite as being the final 'refinement' in bible truths. Yet how many of us remember 10, 20, 30, 40 or 50 years ago, that the rank and file were just as confident when they read the following nonsense in their day:

    "Despite the doubts of so many, from what Jesus said about his coming, it can be said with confidence that most persons who read this article, and millions of others, will live to see that earth-shaking event take place." ------w 1975 1/1 p. 9 Will You Live to See Christ's "Coming"?

    "Yes, in the initial fulfillment, "this generation" evidently meant the same as it did at other times-the contemporaneous generation of unbelieving Jews. That "generation" would not pass away without experiencing what Jesus foretold. As Williamson commented, this proved true in the decades leading up to Jerusalem's destruction, as an eyewitness historian, Josephus, described. In the second or larger fulfillment, "this generation" would logically also be the contemporaneous people. As the article beginning on page 16 establishes, we need not conclude that Jesus was referring to a set number of years making up a "generation."-----w 1995 11/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers

    "So when, on the Mount of Olives, he again spoke of "this generation," he evidently did not mean the entire race of Jews throughout history; nor did he mean his followers, even though they were "a chosen race." (1 Peter 2:9) Neither was Jesus saying that "this generation" is a period of time."----w 1999 5/1 p. 11 par. 12 "These Things Must Take Place"

    The Writing Department has made more embarassing gaffs than the Duchess of York, and it is incredible that anyone still buys their bullshit at all. I believe that, while they'll never admit it, more and more of the rank and file are uncomfortably aware that "this generation" has completely lost it's meaning, at least from the WT's point of view, and that they will in fact, grow old and die in this "System of Things". The Borg is desperately trying to stem the fallout of their disastrous change in the Nov 1995 WT that shocked so many and was the beginning of the fallout they now have.

    For all the times the WTS have painted themselves into a corner with their ridiculous predictions, it is worth noting that they have never issued an apology. Not once. No matter how devastating their lies had on millions of people, they will never accept responsibility for their screw-ups and simply put it all down to "noo lite". It should be interesting to see how long it takes before they go and change what Jesus "evidently" meant by "this generation" yet again.

    Truly nauseating.

    F quietlyleaving posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 17:40:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 3033 of 2974
    Joined 6/22/2007

    the generation paragraph was met with silence at our hall too. The study conducter helpfully suggested thatit may be best to read the answer from the paragraph and so someone did.

    I got 2 answers in and was able to share a couple of my favourite points from here.

    nancy drew posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 18:18:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 283 of 2192
    Joined 7/21/2009

    Oh how I hate these expressions!

    we need not speculate how

    we have every reason to believe

    we do well to keep fully attuned

    M Open mind posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 18:27:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 5017 of 6297
    Joined 8/30/2006

    Great job as usual Blondie.

    Here's an observation I had on Paragraph 17:

    Quote:

    "As we have seen, Jehovah used his spirit in the past to protect individuals as well as the nation of Israel as a whole. Hence, we have every reason to believe that he will use that same powerful spirit to protect his people during the approaching great tribulation."

    Unquote.

    Are they saying that individual JW's should expect direct divine intervention in their personal behalf? Uh, no.

    Quote:

    " We need not speculate about exactly how Jehovah will care for us then."

    Unquote.

    Bottom line: Fluffy, feel good, vague statements that can't be pinned down one way or the other. And if you dare to speculate about whether or not Jehovah will save your individual butt from persecutors, you're doing something that you "need not" do.

    om

    M Open mind posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:03:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 5018 of 6297
    Joined 8/30/2006

    I wonder if it would be appropriate to share this "experience" in a comment regarding paragraph 17.

    *** w83 5/15 p. 10 Loyal Youths Martyred for God’s Kingdom ***
    Elmer and Alex had been found, their bodies riddled with bullets. There were signs that they had been tortured before they were finally killed. It is believed that one of the subversive groups tried to convince them to join their group in warring against the government in power. However, the boys, being Jehovah’s Witnesses, would not break their Christian neutrality by joining such a group. Apparently for this reason they were executed. They were two more martyrs in the long line of faithful Christians who have died for refusing to become involved in worldly politics. They obeyed God rather than men.—John 17:16; 18:36; Acts 5:29.

    ******************

    In the light of the experience above, what kind of concrete meaning is a JW to take from a statement like:

    " he will use that same powerful spirit to protect his people during the approaching great tribulation."

    Meaningless on a personal level. If a JW is possibly about to be killed for his faith, they have no reason to think Jehovah is going to miraculously intervene.

    om

    XPeterX posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:11:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 117 of 324
    Joined 3/1/2010

    Thanx Blondie

    M llbh posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:43:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 2375 of 2360
    Joined 9/29/2007

    Surely overlap and overlay are different aren't they? therefore if something overlaps another, the part that is overlapped is smaller than that which it is overlapping it or being overlapped, yes? QED even using the tortuous reasoning of the wts, this can at the very most add another 10 years. The generation that saw WW2 has largely passed let alone the generation that saw WW1. This is utter nonsense and the WTS know it, which leaves them culpable of a huge fraud.

    David

    booby posted Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:58:00 GMT(6/13/2010)

    Post 408 of 967
    Joined 5/25/2005

    The jw's generated there own definition of generation, and you are going to suggest that they cannot do the same for overlapping. Come on now, this is jehubers org your talkin bout here.

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