Forced to commit adultery, how?

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    dgp posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 20:32:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    I read somewhere that the WT holds that a person who refuses to have sex with the spouse is somehow "forcing" the spouse to commit adultery. I consider this ridiculous, but, in the interest of learning more, may someone explain this to me?

    Would the spouse thus "forced" be disfellowshipped? Or would YHWH make an exception?

    Thank you.

    cantleave posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 20:33:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    No exceptions whatever the circumstances.

    cult classic posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:10:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    Not forced in the true definition of the word. If you refuse your mate sex often enough you could be at least in part responsible for them seeking sexual gratification outside the marriage. Each case would be different I suppose, but I would think reasonable elders would take into account the situation before DFg someone in those circumstances. According to the bible each spouse should render the other their marital due so as not to put them in a bad situation.

    YHWH wouldn't have to make an exception, he has nothing to do with it. His name is just thrown around a lot.

    Cult Classic

    dgp posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:17:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    I used to believe each individual is solely responsible for his or her own sins. If this were not the case, then YHWH would disfellowship you for something you didn't do. From a strictly human point of view, I understand that a person will be more inclined to cheat if he or she is being denied sex at home. But we're not talking about a God who would act that way. Do I detect an inconsistency here?

    F blondie posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:58:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    *** w86 8/15 p. 16 par. 13 Guard Against Misusing Power ***On the other hand, wives have been known to show reluctance to pay the marriage due when their wishes are crossed. In fact, some wives have even refused the marriage due altogether. Sad to say, at times this has contributed to a husband’s committing adultery. All such failure to heed Paul’s counsel at 1 Corinthians 7:3-5 is likewise a selfish misuse of power.

    ------------------------

    There is nothing that says that the husband would not be considered responsible for his actions. What if his wife were in a coma and unable to have sex...that would not mean he has permission to find sex elsewhere. What if a husband were in prison.....should his wife find someone else. The WTS would like to think that men have it harder living a moral life, but then why does the WTS point to Joseph and Jesus as fine examples of men.

    palmtree67 posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 22:05:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    I don't know if my experience helps you or not:

    Before I left my ex-husband, he had cut me off financially and I was only able to save up a small amount of money to get away from him. He then chased me around the country and I had to move 3 times, moving is expensive. Although he hated my parents and we had little to do with them, he suddenly started calling them all the time and they began to side with him. They helped him to legally steal my car, which was all I had. They all made life miserable every where I moved, demanding the elders to monitor every move I made.

    Someone I knew in my past found out what was going on, called me up and said, "Palmtree, I've loved you for years. I've sat back and watched your family, your husband and the congregations treat you like crap and I can't watch it anymore. Please come here and let me take care of you."

    I tried to go it alone for a while longer, because I didn't want to get df'ed, but by this time, I was out of my head from the stress of it all. He arranged a plane ticket for me and I moved in with him a few months after ( I lived with friends of his for a bit).

    So, no.......no one put a gun to my head and forced me to fornicate. But under all those circumstances (I'm abbreviating alot here....) my choices were very limited. I chose to be with the only one who loved and cared about me.

    I'm df'ed now. But I don't regret it. I married that good, kind man.

    dgp posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 22:47:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    Palmtree, yours is a very moving story. I wouldn't cast any stone at you for it; I know you were trapped. There is no way I would blame you for doing what you did.

    I didn't make my point correctly. What I wanted to say was this: I have read some accounts of women who were forced to have sex with abusive husbands on the grounds that their denying sex would "force them" to have sex somewhere else. How come? I was particularly moved by a story I read, by someone who I won't identify, who had to accept beatings and abuse while in very bad health just because she had to "give her dues". How can it be that someone has to sleep with the abuser, lest she "stumbles" him?

    Sorry, in case someone got hurt.

    cult classic posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 22:55:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    Exactly what I'm talking about PalmTree. An unloving mate can be a person's worst nightmare. So in part they contributed to the adultery by making it difficult for the spouse to stay faithful. So while no one can "force" another to commit adultery there obviously can be mitigating circumstances that contribute to the issue.

    Cult Classic

    P.S. palmtree - I'm glad you're with someone who makes you happy and takes care of you.

    cult classic posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 22:59:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    ok dgp I get what you mean. Now that is different. That is a case of people minding other people's business. The WTS loves to get in the bedroom of married folks. If a witness wife is looking to get sympathy from the elders and they are idiots they may counsel her to keep rendering her husband his due, even in this type of situation. If she doesn't have enough will to stand on her own and leave (regardless of the cost ) she'll be trapped for sure. But there was info many years back that you could separate (with the WTS' approval) if you were being physically abused.

    Cult Classic

    ana_dote posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 23:16:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    Yeah it's a pretty screwed up system of technicalities and loopholes, really. Pretty much anything you do outside of having a perfect blissful marriage is going to be frowned upon, judged and/or even punished.

    If a partner purposefully denies their partner sex, then they will be counseled and punished. If the partner being denied goes and commits adultery, they will be counseled and punished. If a woman is being abused, she will be ignored and the husband will receive the benefit of the doubt by the elders (or at least that has been my observation). If a woman leaves her abusive husband, they will look at her as being questionable association and the brother will probably end up receiving more "help" than her, because SHE left HIM.

    It's all a bunch of political BS that has absolutely no justice in it.

    I say the elders need to butt out of people's marriages and let them sort it out between themselves and God.

    ana_dote posted Sun, 25 Apr 2010 23:18:00 GMT(4/25/2010)

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    oh and palmtree.....I AM SO PROUD OF YOU!!!!!! I cannot begin to imagine the living hell you went through with those people....and then the guilty JW conscience that must have been nagging at you when this wonderful man came to your rescue! I am so glad you made the RIGHT choice, though, and that this amazing man was there when you needed someone the most. Kudos to both of you and I hope you have the most wonderful years together as anyone can have!!!

    Scully posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 02:51:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    Apparently the WTS endorses the concept that men are not responsible for their sexual urges. If a married woman withholds the Marital Due™, she is thus creating a situation where her husband may succumb to sexual temptation. That's why, when a JW man has an extramarital affair, the Elders™ usually ask whether the wife was withholding the Marital Due™, and is therefore responsible for his lack of self control. Of course, some men need it every day, 3 times a day, and anything less is construed by them as "withholding" - so in that respect, it's a very subjective topic.

    They are also not inclined to recognize that a man who forces sex on his wife after she says NO has committed marital rape. She is always supposed to accommodate his needs - if he needs somewhere to tuck in his pecker, she is expected to acquiesce. If a wife claims that her husband raped her, the Elders™ tend to blame her for saying no in the first place.

    dgp posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 03:31:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    Apparently the WTS endorses the concept that men are not responsible for their sexual urges.

    This was my point. I'm sorry I couldn't make myself understood.

    Scully, three cheers for you.

    garyneal posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 03:47:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    Does that count for unbelievers? I mean, what if I sin because my wife did not give me my marital due TM ?

    I was considering asking Terry this.

    Now I am not considering cheating. So how can I sin?

    Guess I can do the Pee Wee Herman.

    dgp posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 03:52:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    Gary, you mean "Does this count for the Undead?". That's my New Light for people like you and me.

    Since you're an Undead, maybe the answer is in the negative. Now, the Undead can sin because you're as good as dead anyways.

    garyneal posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 04:14:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    Undead

    Well, I know we are considered birdfood for the average witness. But I can say that my wife has warmed up to me a lot lately. So at least for now I do not have to sin in any way.

    upnorth posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:08:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    If the WBATS is saying it's the womans fault that the husband has stepped out of the marriage, it's just more stupid from the steaming pile of stupid.

    The WBATS can't offer a solution because the solution would involve counseling outside of the KH and counseling out of the KH would likely lead to "followers" discovering the "truth".

    And we can't have that can we ?

    Photobucket

    Photobucket---palmtree---Photobucket

    F blondie posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:26:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    I will add that I have know jw men do use this same thing to control their wives by not having sex with them, sometimes not even talking to them it is just that the GB has it in their mind that men need sex so bad that they couldn't possibly use this tactic.

    F blondie posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 12:29:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    I also know one sister who was raped by her non-jw husband and abused other ways. He left and she got a divorce and remarried and found that unless she was drunk she could not have sex with her second jw husband. The elders called and used this paragraph to tell her that unless she got with the program that she would be responsible for his sin. BTW her jw husband didn't mind if she was drunk everyday. She didn't buy into this reasoning but it showed to her that there was to be no support for her as an abused woman.

    sammielee24 posted Mon, 26 Apr 2010 13:01:00 GMT(4/26/2010)

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    Nobody ever 'forces' anyone, JW or not, into another consensual sexual relationship.

    There are however, two sides to every story - his and hers, as to the reasons it might happen. A woman who hates sex and refuses to engage in it, is equally to blame as is the man who withholds sex or affection as a means of punishment. I think in worlds like the JW, where divorce is hated, too many couples feel that they don't have to try - everybody knows that God hates divorce, so the assumption is that 'we gottcha' and there's nowhere to turn. This is especially true when Elders are told to caution women against leaving abusive mates and when abused males are cautioned to take stronger actions as head of the household.

    People aren't forced into another relationship but they most certainly can be pushed.

    sammieswife.

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