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Non-practising homosexual JW's

    Quillsky posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 01:55:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 301 of 844
    Joined 12/22/2009

    As I understand it, being gay is not a sin in the organization, only homosexual acts are sins. I've never read anywhere that gay JW people are encouraged to "fix" their gayness and marry.

    I've certainly known a fair number of confirmed bachelor types who live exemplary lives in the Witness sense - one life-long Bethelite I knew springs to mind - but are clearly (to me anyway) gay. They've all been in the closet though.

    I wonder if any JW has ever been out of the closet, but not disfellowshipped since they don't have sex? Or even, out of the closet with "privileges" in the organization?

    Single heterosexuals can say "I'm heterosexual and celibate since I'm not married". Can single homosexuals say "I'm homosexual and celibate" without any repercussions in the congregation?

    bulgogiboy posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 02:51:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 91 of 138
    Joined 12/21/2009

    Excellent point. I would think at the very least any jw who openly admitted to being gay would be ostracized beyond belief by the other jws, regardless of whether he was celibate or not, either that or some loving bros and sis' would try to find him a nice sister to marry, and 'cure' him hehe. I would think most people with strong homosexual tendancies would feel so unwelcome and repressed within the jw org they would leave at some point. Two clear things I noticed which were widely acceptable in the jws, in an unspoken sense: 1. Overdrinking alcohol and 2. Saying cruel and nasty things about gay people, even using clearly unjehovah-ish words to describe them, such as 'poof' or 'fag', etc.

    Then they would have studies of certain books which would seem to throw an admiring light on people like Alexander the Great, who was a little light in the sandals by all accounts....(not to mention an alcoholic mass murderer).

    dssynergy posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 03:57:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 97 of 249
    Joined 11/14/2009

    I do know one gay man, who was baptized a virgin at 18. When he turned 30, he decided to come out to his congregation because he didn't want to deal with sisters who wanted to date him. As far as I know, he is still an active, respected JW, and out. That is on the east coast, and I think it would be more accepted there than in any other part of the country other than San Francisco.

    DS

    F Lady Lee posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 06:09:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 14055 of 14228
    Joined 6/29/2001

    my ex studied with a young man who was gay. Got him to switch sides and he married andthey had a child

    I hate to think how that turned out

    M ColdRedRain posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:24:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 2411 of 2390
    Joined 10/8/2002

    There's a JW around here that's a VERY confirmed bachelor, and he invites many a young man on a cruise.... I knew he was a very confirmed bachelor because I talked to one of his lovers. He invited both my youngest cousin and my brother on a cruise.

    Quillsky posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:29:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 306 of 844
    Joined 12/22/2009

    That's interesting CRR but maybe your topic deserves its own thread?

    I'm discussing gay JW's who don't have same-sex relationships. I think that's worth talking about.

    cantleave posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:22:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 2227 of 12727
    Joined 6/25/2009

    In the 1980's we had a brother who was reproved for sexual misconduct with another bloke. There was a local needs talk about controlling sexual desires outside of marriage and the struggle that people have if they have homosexual tendancies. He was not DF'd and after a short period of restrictions was back to being used i the congregation. He was obviously a celibate gay . As far as I know he is and still in the org.

    no lies please posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:39:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 8 of 41
    Joined 3/9/2009

    "I've never read anywhere that gay JW people are encouraged to "fix"their gayness and marry."

    True, it's not stated directly. However, there have been a number of experiences published where individuals chose marriage as a way to get beyond being gay. It seems that the society endorses that course by publishing those experiences.

    I can think of a couple of examples that lend to your question. I know of one witness male who was completely "out" and had no cong. responsibilities-ever. Another witness male who had a ton of responsibilities in the cong., circuit, district. He lost it all after confessing to a cuddling encounter with another male witness that he swears did not involve "porneia".

    bulgogiboy posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 11:53:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 92 of 138
    Joined 12/21/2009

    No lies please: your avatar pic would get you reproved, as part of it looks distinctly phallic (albeit flaccid).

    F rebel8 posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:31:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 7101 of 9641
    Joined 1/13/2005

    It was definitely not taught in our kingkongregation, or by the borg headquarters, that thought crimes are ok. "Hate the unclean thing" and all.

    "Independent thinking" is a crime against jehoopla, for example. Speaking or acting against the borg is a separate crime.

    So is "lusting in your heart", "coveting your neighbor's wife".

    awildflower posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:45:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 564 of 1155
    Joined 5/17/2009

    What's a Bloke, Cantleave??

    And I've never heard of this org encouraging ANYONE with ANY problem to get ANY type of outside help with ANYTHING. Telling gay guys to just get married would be the extent of their training and advice on the subject. Sounds about right to me!

    F mrsjones5 posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:58:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 11423 of 19558
    Joined 10/13/2004

    bloke = a guy

    Thank you PBS and BBC America

    F blondie posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 16:58:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 28688 of 36644
    Joined 5/28/2001

    I have known of non-jws who were already openly gay when they studied with jws and were baptized. Three married and later were appointed MS then elders. They and their wives were older and had no children. The other 2 did not marry and lived their lives apart from the gay community. No one in this area felt that marriage to a woman would "cure" their homosexual tendencies. That would be reasoning that if a man were married he would not have any desire to have sex with another woman. The point is not to act on those desires.

    cantleave posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:13:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 2229 of 12727
    Joined 6/25/2009

    bloke = a guy

    Thank you PBS and BBC America

    Sorry folks I forget we Brits speak a different language

    bulgogiboy posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 17:42:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 93 of 138
    Joined 12/21/2009

    Cantleave, actually it's all the others who speak a different language

    hamsterbait posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:56:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 3104 of 4471
    Joined 7/7/2004

    Once they know a person is Gay if they have a friend to stay overnight in their home they can be DF for "incriminating circumstances"

    In the Shepherding the Flock Book it says that if anybody stays overnight in the home of a "known" homosexual they can be DF.

    A lesbian on this board said the elders told her that if she had a female friend to stay they would Df her.

    What is ridiculous is that they have no direct two witness proof of wrong-doing, but they CAN infer it.

    Why dont they DF pedos who have had youngsters over to stay the night (unless of course two people watched)?

    God help you if you are living alone and keep a dog. They assume that everybody is ready to do what the GB and Beth Hell infants want to do within seconds of being alone with another creature with a pulse.

    Sickening Dirty Old Men

    HB

    F Lady Lee posted Sat, 20 Feb 2010 23:25:00 GMT(2/20/2010)

    Post 14063 of 14228
    Joined 6/29/2001

    wow HB that means they are totally screwed. If a same gen der person stays over they could be hung out to dry and if an opposite gender person stayed over they could be hung out to dry

    F restrangled posted Sun, 21 Feb 2010 00:35:00 GMT(2/21/2010)

    Post 6290 of 6503
    Joined 6/10/2006

    I had two Gays in my family. Both served at Bethel. One was of the anointed and finally had to admit what was happening, Was DF'd, in the late 1960's and reinstated. Despite his history, afterwards he use to take young Bethel boys on cruises. Was he still gay afterwards?....no question. Was he still of the anointed...no one knows until this day....he's in his 90's. Was he practicing....I doubt it, he Just loved male company.

    The other married and had many children, but was able to maintain his lifestyle in secret. Pretty much the entire family was privey, but turned a blind eye. He never held any position with the JWs. Because of his charming personality, none of his brothers and sisters ever took him to task, although is wife went insane.

    These same brothers and sisters were rock hard with any disfellowshipped nieces and nephews by the way.

    It's sad that Gays are still so frowned upon in many religions. I have come to the conclusion that people are born predisposed to who they are.

    Sexual orientation, horrible depressive problems,natural cheerfulness, or those with exceptional talents is in the genes.

    No amount of therapy, guilt trips or shunning will ever change anything. Dragging any child to learn a talent they are not adept at is the same thing.

    Society in general has a long way to go.

    r.

    M neverendingjourney posted Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:25:00 GMT(2/21/2010)

    Post 802 of 1008
    Joined 1/29/2007

    Maybe it's a cultural thing, but in my area gays and lesbians competed with apostates for the privilege of being the bottom layer of the sociological totem pole. I suppose in theory a JW could get away with being openly gay yet celibate, but for all practical purposes, that person would be ostracized by an extremely homophobic church membership. My gut tells me the GB has a policy on this matter somewhere in their super-secret instructions to DOs/Branch Committees.

    Quillsky posted Sun, 21 Feb 2010 03:05:00 GMT(2/21/2010)

    Post 308 of 844
    Joined 12/22/2009

    Interesting, dssynergy.....

    When he turned 30, he decided to come out to his congregation because he didn't want to deal with sisters who wanted to date him.

    So it's actually better to say "I'm a gay JW" --- more honest towards everybody. Hence gay (emotionally gay, non-practising sexually) Witnesses should be encouraged to come out.

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