C.O. Talked about the fact that we may die in this system

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    life is to short posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:24:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 166 of 2039
    Joined 8/22/2009

    Being that my husband is still going to most of the meetings, I tied into the meeting Sunday to see what the CO had to say on his last day at the hall. One thing I found interesting is that we may die in this system. He said when he first learned the "truth" he just knew for sure that the system would end before he was baptized and he was so stressed out from it. "He went through the questions in April and was not to be dunked until June and every morning he would wake up and run to the window to make sure that the system had not ended." I found his use of the word dunked offensive for some reason also. Really flip. But he said the word "dunked."

    He then said "how many here have felt that way." We might have grown up in the "truth" and 'have been told we would not graduate high school and for sure you would not get married, and definitely we would not have children in this system. Then we did get married and have children but we felt our children Definitely would not go to school and would Definitely not graduate high school and very Definitely not get married and have children. Now not only our children but our grandchildren are getting married and having children.'

    The CO said does this mean that Jehovah's Witnesses were wrong? NO!!! Jehovah is not slow with what he promised (Habakkuk 2:3).

    The CO then said that we all need to live each day like the system is going to end tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    So what about all the window washers who have no savings, no health insurance, who have horrible health because of eating so bad because of not having enough money to buy good food. What is Jehovah going to do for all the 60's and 70's year old people who gave their youth for the cause?

    And like the CO said to all the young on Sunday give your lives to Jehovah now!!!! Are they not looking at their parents, grandparents and others who gave everything and have nothing? And yet many in the hall are pioneering and still quitting school not even graduating high school so that they can pioneer and they definitely will not go to college.

    How crazy and sad is all of this is this?

    LITS

    Think About It posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:36:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 167 of 3157
    Joined 1/20/2010

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.- George Santayana

    Think About It

    JWoods posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:40:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 1883 of 4818
    Joined 6/23/2009

    This sounds like a new type of JW C.O. - a sort of new JW age modernist. An apologist, if you will, for the past "end within your life" preaching.

    It sounds to me like his own spin, not official WTS policy.

    BTW, that "dunked" language is also pretty flip in my books - again, he sounds like a new age type of JW. Probably setting himself up for a little talk with someone if the old liners get wind of it.

    BTW2, the "fear that big A would come before he was dunked" is doctrinally wrong according to JW thought - unbaptized youth were supposed to be protected through their JW parents. But, whatever -

    journey-on posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:47:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 3719 of 5331
    Joined 2/28/2007

    I have come to believe that it really is about individual witnesses and their intelligence level, or lack thereof. My sister and bil are diehard lifetime witnesses. They have dedicated their lives to their beliefs wholeheartedly. Yet, they have managed their finances, bought a home, remodelled it just recently, socked loads of cash away for retirement, and made investments just like any intelligent worldly person would do.

    Is their faith less than the foolish couple that gave up everything in the name of their religion and idled away their time, energy, and money? I don't think so. They simply used a modicum of common sense and intelligence.

    I feel sorry for JWs that used the religion as an excuse to p*ss away their lives, but at some point one just has to be responsible and smart and cover their bases.

    M frankiespeakin posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:51:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 7300 of 11576
    Joined 9/9/2003

    LifeITS,

    I think the CO is battling with a bout of cognitive dissonance that is creeping into his talk like a Freudian slip.

    M sir82 posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:53:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 3897 of 9319
    Joined 5/17/2005
    This sounds like a new type of JW C.O. - a sort of new JW age modernist.

    I like it.

    "Yeah, we're wrong and we're stupid and we're short-sighted and we're hypocritical - but we're in the truth, baby!"

    JWoods posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:53:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 1885 of 4818
    Joined 6/23/2009
    I think the CO is battling with a bout of cognitive dissonance that is creeping into his talk like a Freudian slip.

    Very well stated. Very likely true.

    journey-on posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:56:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 3720 of 5331
    Joined 2/28/2007

    Maybe he's planting little seeds surreptiously.

    M OnTheWayOut posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:57:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 10194 of 18573
    Joined 9/8/2006

    Either JWoods is right on the money OR this is a new way to address things. I am with JWoods, but here's the other side just in case:

    This C.O. may have learned from Headquarters that middle-aged to young adult JW's are questioning the past, so address it just so. Admit that expectations have not been the reality, but go on to tell them to keep in expectation. That would typically be accompanied by thoughts that nobody will be sorry they died in "this system of things" in expectation when they wake up in Paradise, but they cannot get there if it comes tomorrow and they have left their guard down. Then the "dunked" type of language might be to address the hip young JW crowd that likes to sound rebellous and different. A little shock in the language causes them to pay attention.

    Out at Last! posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 16:59:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 259 of 442
    Joined 8/29/2009

    Yes the end didn't come for granny, for me, for my children, but follow our stupid example, show how much faith you have. How can you change the story now? You have got to keep the cash flow going.

    JWoods posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:02:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 1886 of 4818
    Joined 6/23/2009
    This C.O. may have learned from Headquarters that middle-aged to young adult JW's are questioning the past, so address it just so. Admit that expectations have not been the reality, but go on to tell them to keep in expectation.

    Very possible as well, OTWO. We had one or two young C.O. types right after 1975 that did this...but back then, of course, they were doing it all on their own.

    I made the mistake of telling one of these my misgivings about the society teachings in about 1978, and you could not believe how quick he snapped back at me and called me an apostate.

    I really cannot get my head around the society actually encouraging this kind of talk from the platform, though - time will tell. If we hear it in multiple places, then maybe so.

    Scully posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:02:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 15089 of 13474
    Joined 11/2/2001

    The people who are hard-core yet still have the wherewithall to manage successfully in life now are known as Materialistic™ by the JWs who are hard-core and don't have the same wherewithall and end up pissing their money and lives down the $h!tter while they worship the WTS.

    When I went back to school, I didn't make a secret of it. The JWs in our congregation and others that we knew made it the topic of gossip that I was pursuing Worldly™ goals and being Materialistic™. My reply to that was that if my husband suddenly dropped dead like a Brother™ we knew, I would have no way to support my children. They claimed that "Jehovah would provide" - and I told them to make sure they had a few extra bedrooms in their house so my kids and I could move in and be provided for until Jehovah stepped in. That shut them up from criticizing me to my face, but the backstabbing gossip didn't stop.

    I knew another Sister™ who laughed at me when I told her I was going back to school. She said "You'll never graduate before Armageddon™! Why bother?" I brought up the subject of how many JWs were told that they'd never finish grade school or high school or get married or have children before Armageddon™. I told her that it was foolish to put life "on hold" waiting for something that you had no way of knowing when it would happen. I found out later that she was secretly taking night courses at university and passed the bar around the same time that I graduated from college. She was never called on the carpet, never criticized, never chastised, never mocked, or treated differently by the congregation because she kept her mouth shut about what she was doing.

    life is to short posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:03:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 168 of 2039
    Joined 8/22/2009

    Also this CO came into the "truth" when he was early 20's. He is the only one in his family who is a JW. His dad was so mad and upset. Cut him off everything and from what I understand his dad had a ton of money. He cut the CO out of his will and left him with nothing.

    Now this CO is pushing the age of 50 and has no savings or nothing set aside for the future. Nothing period! And he brags about it saying "Jehovah will provide when he is old he is setting the example for the young ones in the hall" Oh please!!!! Do not plan for the future leave it to Jehovah to take care of you he said at the last CA.

    I wonder what he will be saying in 20 years?

    I will never feel sorry for him but I am sure we all will be taking care of him through state help.

    It is so maddening.

    LITS

    Think About It posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:07:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 168 of 3157
    Joined 1/20/2010

    "Dunked" was way too informal of a word to describe baptism from the platform by a CO. That's one of them things where if a liberal elder used it (not that he should) hardliners would be all over his butt. However, mention it to the CO and he'll wait for his chance to pay back the elder.

    JWoods posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:07:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 1887 of 4818
    Joined 6/23/2009

    Once again, I am reminded of my 21st century theory of the current majority of the JW rank and file -

    I don't think they really believe (in the bottom of their hearts) that the Big A will come in their lifetime.

    In this, the current lot has made the graduation that the rest of Adventism did two generations ago...it was and still is a nice idea, but not an urgent reality (the end of all earthly things).

    M frankiespeakin posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:07:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 7301 of 11576
    Joined 9/9/2003

    JO,

    Maybe he's planting little seeds surreptiously.

    You may very well be right. I did the same thing when I was an elder and was finding things more and more unbelievable, I had to be careful so I always ended with the party line but in the middle raised valid objections surreptitiously, which were what I was really thinking.

    Eventually I stepped down as an elder and left.

    M sir82 posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:13:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 3898 of 9319
    Joined 5/17/2005
    "Jehovah will provide when he is old

    Just like Jehovah "provided" a way for several hundred Bethelites in their 50's to begin special pioneering, after they got kicked out of Bethel 3-4 years ago?

    That Jehovah, he's a real generous sort, ain't he?

    shamus100 posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:31:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 4057 of 8644
    Joined 2/10/2008
    I knew another Sister™ who laughed at me when I told her I was going back to school. She said "You'll never graduate before Armageddon™

    Well, of course she laughed at you. You could never graduate school, because you are a stupid woman, right Skully? That's what she was really saying. Sad that she had to project her insecurities on you, no? Typical JW assclown.

    To be honest, people who have wild dreams of travelling, sitting by a beach sipping a martini from 55 on is just too far fetched for me. Most people don't travel when they get older, preferring to stay home. Plus healthcare abroad is outrageous when you get older!

    Having said that, it's nice to be at least set up for old age. They are going to live in poverty. Very sad, but you reap what you sow.

    whyizit posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:40:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 494 of 495
    Joined 12/21/2005

    I would think this would be a great spring board to start interesting conversations with the hubby!

    "Honey, I was thinking about the CO's observations. You know, how he thought the system would end, but it didn't?

    I wonder about the people who are working at Bethel, and have never been paid much. Do you think the WTS has a nice rest home waiting for them? Cause, you know, they won't qualify for SSI. And after all the years of faithful, free service, it wouldn't seem right if they were just booted out on the street when they can no longer work."

    Oh, yeah. Honey! A friend brought up an interesting thought. What do you say to someone who points out that dying at Armageddon seems like a more viable option? because you do still get be resurrected, after all. Yet, you don't have to watch loved ones being killed, devoured by worms and birds, and then have to bury the billions of bones left. Then there's the JWs having to clean up and build everything without power tools, etc... (No pollution in the "new system".) , just using wheel barrows, shovels, and hand saws. Working like that so a bunch of non-JWs who never lifted a finger can just come back and enjoy it all. Seems like it would be better to die at the Big A and rest until all the work is done. "

    "Oh, one more thing, Honey Buns! A non-JW asked me a question that I just didn't know how answer. I was tellin' them all about the constant state of resurrections that would be going on during the "new system", and they couldn't quite grasp that. they asked me to show them in the Bible where it says specifically that this will occur. I tried, but then they pointed out Rev. 19:4-5. It appears to say there is not a resurrection during the 1,000 years! What do you make of that, Honey? It seems to only be speaking of TWO resurrections. One before, and one after, the 1,000 yrs."

    Of course, I know this all is easier said than done, but it is kind of fun to think about what you wish you could say!

    I would like to know what the heck the filthy rich WTS has to offer for those who do put their lives on hold to be a slave to their printing company. They should be REQUIRED to pay some sort of restitution to those who were duped into thinking the world would end and they wouldn't need SSI and Medicare. SHAME on them!

    dearone posted Wed, 10 Feb 2010 17:54:00 GMT(2/10/2010)

    Post 8 of 13
    Joined 10/26/2006

    I think this must be in the outline. My CO said somthing very similar last month. He brought out the fact that his mother thought she would live to see the end but has now departed and that he may also like his mother not see the fulfillment of the promise in his lifetime. But this is something that we are hearing more and more. During a public talk the speaker also spoke along these lines. I think a lot of people are really starting to think or it could be conditioning and trying to smooth the waters as we get deeper into this system of things.

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