For Active JW Men: Ideas on Awakening Your JW Spouse (Long post)

DISCLAIMER:  Your Mileage May Vary

If you are a married, "active, in good standing" (tm), JW male who has recently discovered that the
Watchtower is not what it claims to be, this thread is for you.  Some ideas will apply to JW women
trying to wake up their husbands, but some won't. 

As some of you know from recent posts, my wife recently awakened from the JW haze.  Before too much time passes and memory fades, I thought I
would share what worked for me and what didn't, and also the decision making processes I went through as time went on.  To put a little more flesh on the above disclaimer, I don't recommend what I did for everyone.  In fact, I don't recommend it to ANYONE.  I DO strongly recommend that
you at least give careful consideration to the various life stories on the Web, and see what sounds applicable to your own personal situation.  Take your time.  Educate yourself.  Allow time for the first waves of disbelief, anger, bargaining, acceptance, etc to pass by.  Then make a plan and begin to work it.     


I started lurking on JWD/JWN in August, 2006.  One of the best life stories I stumbled upon in those early days was on Freeminds.org "How I Helped My Family Leave Jehovah's Witnesses". 

http://www.freeminds.org/support/restoring-family/how-i-helped-my-family-leave-jehovah-s-

witnesses.html

This man's story of how he remained serving as an elder while systematically using the Family Study to get his family out of the JWs struck a chord with me.  The enormity of the task seemed overwhelming at first.  The temptation to personally do a quick fade and just lay everything on the table for my wife was very strong.  You may remember the poster Ian Hinze aka "Dansk" who was a regular contributor to JWD.  He "ripped off the Band-Aid" of JWism in February, 2003, dumped it all in his family's lap at once and actually had pretty good success.  He got his wife and two teenage sons out in one fell swoop.  His two daughters, 23 & 19, left home and stayed with the JWs for a time.  The younger daughter ("faundy" on JWN) eventually chose to leave the JWs as well.  As far as I know, the oldest daughter is still in the JW religion and shuns her non-JW family. I'm only going by posts I've read on this site.  Here's the link to Ian's heart-rending initial story if you've never read it:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/47295/1/TORN-APART

Could Ian have possibly reached his oldest daughter if he had stayed in the JW religion, kept his privileges and embarked on a who-knows-how-long labor of love trying to reach her?  Who can say?  But in hind sight I think most people on here would agree that he absolutely made the right choice for HIS situation.  He didn't know it when he abruptly left the JWs at age 49 that he only had a few precious years of life left.  He died December 20, 2008. He did not waste the last years of his life in JW-fading limbo.  I only know him from what I have read on JWD/JWN, but he seemed like a vibrant man who loved every minute of his too-short life.  I would have loved to have had the honor of making his acquaintance.


So there you go.  Two polar opposite approaches to leaving the JWs with neither one being the "one right way" to do it.  And of course, you can read all sorts of stories that lie somewhere between those extremes in the archives here on JWN. 

With all that long-winded perspective now in place, I present:

Keep Your Elder/MS Hat and Work from the Inside On Your Immediate Family.

CONS:


1.  Life is short. 

Who knows if you'll be here tomorrow, much less, three years from now.

2.  Integrity. 

If you don't have the personality to compartmentalize what needs to be done and play a double-agent for an indefinite period of time, then, for your own sanity you probably need to at least get rid of your "privileges" soon and begin a fade, if not just outright quit cold turkey.  I haven't discussed this with any mental health professionals, but I'm pretty sure that living a "double life" is, at minimum, unhealthy and possibly borderline sociopathic.  I'm just speculating there.  Now that I've got my wife out, maybe I'll go get some counseling. LOL.

3.  It's lonely. 

Without the support of JWD/JWN, my DF-ed oldest brother and a trusted co-worker I don't know if I could have stuck it out for the full three years.

4.  You deceive your spouse. 

That REALLY, REALLY, sucks.  More on that later.


PROS:

1.  Highest chance of success. 

Confirmation bias may be at work here, and I have zero data to back that statement up.  It is strictly my own subjective opinion based on reading thousands of threads here on JWN and stories from other sites.  But the conventional wisdom that came through to me was that confronting a JW
with overwhelmingly convincing evidence usually doesn't work.  The walls go up and you've just joined the ranks of Satan in their mind.

2.  As an elder/MS you have more "spiritual" credibility.

 

It's sad, but the higher up the JW ladder a person is, more weight is given to what they say.  This is why Ray Franz' book, "Crisis of Conscience", as well as the stories of former Bethelites, Gilead graduates, COs, etc. are so valuable in reaching JWs who are daring to take that first forbidden look at anything critical of the Watchtower.  It is what it is.  The JWs are a male-dominated, high-control, authoritarian, secretive religion.

3.  You are more insulated from Shepherding and Counseling.

There was even a letter to Bodies of Elders (BOEs) within the last year or two saying that, generally, the families of Elders & MS don't need shepherding calls, unless there's a special circumstance.  This isn't to say you won't get counsel at all from nosy fellow servants, but, IMO, it will be somewhat reduced. 

4.  You have access to insider information.

Both locally and organizationally.  As an elder in particular, you know what JCs are happening, who's being watched with a jaundiced eye as "weak" or possible "bad association".  Use this to your family's advantage.  At an organizational level, you know what the latest insanity the WT is trying to get the BOEs to implement.   Although, to be honest, any letter to BOEs that isn't just boring paperwork changes, usually shows up on JWN right away.  Thanks to people like you, if you choose to accept this mission. 

5.  You can share this with your spouse.

As time goes on and you see your spouse making progress towards seeing the WT for what it is, you can progressively share bits and pieces of your insider information.  The loophole in the Flock Book, for instance, that says generally, immediate family don't get DFed for associating with DFed relatives.  How many JWs actually are aware of this?  My wife was very disturbed to learn this little gem from the Flock Book.



****************************

My decision making process. 

Here are some questions I had to seriously ponder in the early days.

1.  What will be best for my kids? 

If I start fading and/or present anti-JW information to my spouse and kids, what will happen?  My prediction was that at best, our marriage would become very rocky, the stress wouldn't be good for any of us, but, on the plus side, I would be able to get at least some info to my kids right away.  Also, I would probably be able to get them involved with non-JW friends and extra-curricular activities earlier. At worst, my wife would want a separation or divorce.  Now that we've come out the other side, my wife says that if I had told her my true feelings about the JWs as recently as a year ago, she would have sided with the JWs and our marriage would probably never be the same if it lasted at all.  Here's a non-verbatim dialogue we had about a week ago.

OM: "What if I had just gone irregular/inactive a year or two ago?"

Ms:  "I would have thought my husband had become a lazy, flaky, spiritual loser."

OM:  "What if I had come to you with everything I had learned 1 year or even 6 months ago?"

Ms:  "I probably wouldn't have listened.  I wasn't ready."


If I pursue the slow route, our home life will be much healthier on the whole.  For a little perspective here, our kids haven't been raised in a hard-core, ultra-zealous JW family.  If that was the case, this decision would have been harder.  Here are a couple examples to show what our
home atmosphere was like.

Our kids all learned by the end of the 1st grade that "witnessing" at school just makes you a freak.  We NEVER tried getting them to do that.  We checked out territories on the other side of town so they wouldn't get ribbed by fellow students on Monday.

None of our kids were really that much interested in school sports.  They were interested in other extra-curricular activities which we allowed since day one.  They also were allowed to have non-JW friends to a certain extent.  Much more during the last couple of years. 

2.  How much do I love my wife?

Seriously.  Rose-colored glasses off.  Bright light of day.  I've heard many people share their personal situations on JWN that reveal marriages that are seriously disfunctional.  Why spend three years trying to wake someone up who, at the end of the process, you end up separating from anyway?

 

3.  Is there already some evidence that your spouse might be open to seeing the light?

Here are a few areas where I knew my wife was already part-way down the path to mental freedom. 

Headship:  I have NEVER bought into the Watchtower "headship arrangement" (tm).  At a gut level, it just always seemed wrong to me.  How would I feel if my spouse had the ultimate, gender-determined veto card in our marriage?  My wife has made comments over the years about disliking Bible accounts where women are treated like so much trash.  She also has made it clear to our daughter(s) that the counsel on not separating from a loser husband is total B.S. 

Higher Education:  My wife has a diploma from Window Washer U. and despises it.  Not that she looks down on Flipper and his wife (my favorite ex-JW janitors BTW,  ) she just HATES janitorial work with a passion and wishes she had been given other options earlier in life.

Child Baptism:  Both of us have always been against minors getting baptized.  The rules are black-and-white.  Why allow a kid to enter such a non-rescindable contract?

There are a few other areas where my wife and I were already pretty liberal as JWs go and that made me think we had a fairly realistic chance of success.



**************************

And finally, some general, unsolicited observations and advice. 

(If this doesn't work, I'll give you a full refund.)


Always strive to empathize and communicate. Really try to see how a conversation is being perceived by your spouse and be ready to back off as soon as you see any signs of defensiveness.  Your seed planting is over for that day.

*******************

"Support".  Get professional help if needed.  Take what posters on the Internet say with a huge grain of salt unless you've really gotten a feel for their particular world view. Even then, remember most posters here aren't mental health professionals.  I didn't have to, but I seriously considered seeking professional counseling on several occasions.  

************

Don't flirt.  I know this sounds holier-than-thou, JW-judgemental, but give it some thought.  If you would like to be able to reveal your JWN identity to your spouse someday, will they REALLY be OK with the comments you've made on all those Breast/Penis/Vagina threads?  Which brings me to....

************

Don't reveal intimate details or personally identifying information.  If you wouldn't say it at a party with your wife present, don't say it here. 

****************

Figure out how to use JWN.  The Search feature is good.  Also, if you find a poster you enjoy reading, click on their username and then "Topics Started" to see all their old threads since day one.  If the "Best of" section doesn't work for you, use Internet Explorer instead of Firefox.

*************

Be aware of how extremely disfunctional keeping something like this from her is and apologize humbly, sincerely and repeatedly when the day arrives to come clean.  In many ways it's like having a mental affair.  I agonized over continuing the deception. 

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/members/private/137006/1/Is-posting-on-JWD-cheating

My wife has been wonderfully understanding in this regard.  Unbelievably so.  She knows I didn't take this path on a whim and that I had all of our best interests at heart when I took this calculated risk.  (Thank you so much, my love, for having a heart big enough to accept this.  )

*************

Be the best Husband you can be. Let's face it.  As much as we may try to use logic and rational thinking to guide us, most decisions are at least initially based on emotion.  If you're a jerk, that's one less reason for her to wake up and want to spend the rest of your life together outside the JWs. Or at least mentally outside. 

**************


In conclusion, I would like to give my most heartfelt thanks to Simon & Angharad for hosting this website and to all the posters who have poked, prodded, comforted and jousted with me over the years.  This whole thread sounds like I'm a know-it-all expert, but really, I just stood on the shoulders of those who have gone before me. 

All the best to you as you continue on your path.

om

Thank you for sharing this with us.

-LWT

Wow, nice post, full of good words and wisdom!

Bravo, Dear Om!  Great tips indeed.

Allow time for the first waves of disbelief, anger, bargaining, acceptance, etc to pass by.

Yes it is very VERY difficult to keep a calm head and mouth when one has first discovered the "man behind the curtain", but crucial to communicate with loved ones still in.

Hugs to you and Mrs. Om...
Baba.

Dear Open Mind,

I have been on this board since 2002 and your post was, if not the most practical, it's up there in the top ten.

My husband and I faded together, but I know many are having problems helping their mates understand the "truth".

In their behalf I thank you.

Your suggestions are valid for all of us who have any contact with Witness friends and family.

Congratulations also to your wife, 1. for understanding the truth about the truth, and 2. for catching a caring husband.

You have both done well.

y

Your title sounds more like a Cialis ad than any title I've ever come across on JWN, right down to the "long post".  

OM - thanks so much for sharing. You've inspired me to be a little more open with my wife. I've just avoided JW discussions for quite a while now because I was afraid of what may happen.

Terrific advice. I have a feeling that folks liked you being an elder.

Thank you thank you thank you!

zoiks

Baba:

Hugs to you and Mrs. Om...

Well, it's quite a chore passing on all these JWN hugs to my wife, but if you insist.....

Which segues nicely to SixofNine's Cialis observation. 

I swear, the kinkiest stuff I come up with is never on purpose. 

yesidid:  Thank you very much for that very high praise. I wish I could take credit, but it's really just a condensation and application of everything I've gleaned from JWD/JWN and other sites.

Doubting Bro: 

You've inspired me to be a little more open with my wife.

Don't forget the disclaimer!   I recommend 1 part courage and 2 parts love for any still-believing JW spouse discussions.

I have a feeling that folks liked you being an elder.

My fellow elders, for the most part, could give a rat's a$$ since I haven't been really pulling my WT "weight" for a couple years now.  I've dropped hints here and there over the last year or so about stepping aside and a few of the non-elders have literally begged me not to step aside.  That feels good, but I'm pretty sure my elder days are very numbered now. 

zoiks:

Welcome to the forum!  I haven't read any of your posts yet, but it was mainly for newcomers who haven't yet given up any privileges that I had in mind when writing this.  I wish you peace on your path, wherever it may lead.

om

Excellent post. Bookmarked.

We have been lacking a guide such as this for those who want to take that path.

Thank you

Chris

Wow! 3 years after commencing to lurk here you are still serving and the penny has dropped with your wife!

Congratulations!!

Another example of keeping the "privileges" and being the last one out to increase the chance of rescuing our loved ones

Thanks for sharing OM!

om

you make some excellent points. thanks.

JWDers tend to bring out the worst in some people and this is good advice OM

 edit: oops that was not F2T

Some balanced advice here.  IF YOU CAN, CONSIDER THIS TYPE OF AID TO A LOVED ONE.
Set some due dates to push yourself.  If you don't get the progress you are hoping for, consider walking away from the privileges and the meetings and start enjoying life.

OTWO:

Set some due dates to push yourself.

That's assuming your ultimate goal is to eventually stop being a JW come what may.  Some on this board have resigned themselves to the idea that their JW spouse will likely never awaken, but keep some level of "activity" going just to help maintain better relations with their JW mate.  Especially if the kids are grown or never existed, this option is very understandable. 

We all make our own beds and have to live with the consequences.

om

If you know that the religion of Watchtower is a lie, and you choose to stay within it for the family contacts either for the rest of your life or at least until those loved ones die, then that is an ultimate sadness.  If your loved ones are old or unhealthy, it is understandable because it may be a short time.  Or if you can live free of Watchtower without those loved ones knowing about it, that is understandable.

But if you have resigned yourself to the idea that your JW spouse will likely never awaken, and you keep some level of "activity" going just to help maintain better relations with your JW mate, I am sorry- it is not understandable.

I have heard of many needing personal freedom that their mate doesn't understand and leaving their JW mate.  I have heard of others being "turned in" to the congregation by their JW mate, getting DF'ed as a result and losing some family contact.  It is not our place to judge what the ex-JW has done.  I don't judge family members that get divorced.  Regardless of whether it was adultery or money matters or constant bickering, family is family.  I accept family members for what they are, I understand that some people fall out of love or drift apart or never should have been together.  These are the things that each person must live with in life. 

I love my wife dearly, despite the fact that she is a dedicated JW "lifer" so far.  But if I had to fake it and go to the Kingdom Hall and turn in a field service report just to keep her as my wife, I would never do such a thing.  If she needed me to support her beliefs in the dangerous mind-control cult, I would never do such a thing.  I can stay silent on direct assaults on the religion, and help her by encouraging independent thought and keep our relationship out of the Kingdom Hall. 

I don't judge those that do less than that.  I don't judge those that try to do more than that.  Each is also free to speak their mind totally, even if it leads to divorce/separation/loveless marriage/etc.  Each is free to live the fake life if they want to.  But I don't understand how they can do it, and I feel free to encourage them to find another way as long as they are coming to places like JWN for support.  They are free to ignore it.  I just feel that they are looking for a push or a way not to explode by coming here.  I am glad you didn't explode.  Power to you in your course.

Please let us know how it goes from here on out.  You have offered hope for those that can handle a bit of espionage by delaying their own freedom.  Further updates on your wife and family will help them with further hope or warnings of pitfalls.

OTWO:

I am sorry- it is not understandable.

As we have so many times in the past, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this Jerry.

I can understand it, but if you can't, so be it.  Understanding it doesn't mean it's the course I would choose. 

I don't judge those that do less than that.  I don't judge those that try to do more than that. 

om

I got to thinking a little bit more about a person who awakens to the true nature of the WT and at the same time, realizes their marriage is on the rocks.   Instead of just throwing in the towel and hitting your spouse with everything you've learned, this might be a good time to see if your spouse would be willing to see a non-JW marriage counselor. 

If they are willing to do this, that's one positive sign that perhaps there is hope for both your marriage and, possibly, an awakening.  If they're not even willing to do that, well, add that to the list of pros and cons and go from there.

Just $.02 I thought of on revisiting this thread.

om

When I started to discover “the truth about the truth” the only regret I had was being married. Not that I have a bad wife, I have a very good wife, a wife “a la Jehovah’s Witness”. I love that woman to death, but I feel that she loves the Org more than she loves me as a person. Isn’t that terrible? To be in love with your wife knowing that she could turn against you with a snap of a finger?

Everyday that passes by, every meeting I go to, every self-righteousness comment I hear form a fellow JW only serve as a confirmation I don’t want to continue supporting this religion, I don’t know how much longer I’ll be able to deal this.  Again, one of the things holding me back (there are others) is that I know that I’ll loose my wife in the process.

This week was a good week for spreading the “seed”, two things allowed me to take the opportunity to subtly bring some interesting subjects to her attention. One, the weekly bible reading assignment of Deut 18:21-22 - You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the Lord?”22If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the Lord does not take place or come true, that is a message the Lord has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him. (NIV).

I’ll assume you’ll know what I talked about.

The second thing that helped me to spread the seed is that the service meeting was terrible, the same ol same ol boring thing, she noticed that many bro/sis were “just there”, she left the meeting very dissatisfied and looking bored. I took the opportunity to say that the meetings are not so uplifting because they are not designed to be conducive of real expression, spontaneity; and are not addressing the real emotional needs of many of us. I told her, that the school/service meeting is more like “sales training sessions” than a religious gathering, I said notice how everything is about how to place the magazines, how to offer bible studies, how to preach by phone and letter, how to distribute literature, etc, etc. I asked, why is it that the only two portions of the meeting that allow for some level of personal expression are curtailed and tightly monitored, the book study only 25 min, and the bible highlights 4 min talk and 6 min for 30 sec comments.  She made some mild “JW apologists” comments and listened without defending the Org. But I noticed the distant look in her eyes, like saying “I agree with you…but where else can we go?”.

tjlibre, I totally feel for ya. 

I hope you have read or will consider reading RELEASING THE BONDS by Steve Hassan and get further along in your plan of action.  It sounds like you are doing great, but just like me, are not getting the results hoped for.  OM gives us hope.