Questions for Those in an Alcoholic Relationship

These questions are aimed at non-alcoholic ex-JW's who have survived or left an alcoholic relationship.

Given that the Bible says “God hates a divorcing,” to what extent did religious beliefs keep you in the alcoholic relationship?

To what extent did peer pressure from the congregation keep you in the relationship?

What made you decide to leave the alcoholic relationship when you did?

Thank you in advance for your responses. My questions are part of my research in developing a program for non-alcoholics to survive an alcoholic relationship, and the things that hold them back.

You may e-mail me privately if you wish: doug@dougkelley.com

Doug
http://www.empoweredrecovery.com

FreePeace
"The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine
TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest
Who Am I? -How to Reinvent Yourself After Leaving the WTS

I don't believe there IS anyway for a non-alcoholic to survive an alcoholic relationship. Except perhaps to become an alcoholic as well.

Further, if you examine divorce statitics, it becomes very clear that what "God" has yoked together is being put asunder on a regular basis.

I believe that if God had anything whatever to do with marriage, with yoking two people together, those two would STAY together unless and until God himself allowed their release. That much seems axiomatic. Thus, it is easy to conclude that God has nothing to do with the marriage arrangement; that it is a human invention - a contract between two people into which the church has arrogated an "interested" position.

And although the institution of marriage may be HUMANLY sacred, each human involved in this human-invented contract has the right to terminate that contract when it no longer provides that which each of the contracting parties desire.

No one desires living with a drunk. By definition there is abuse going on in an alcoholic relationship; abuse of some kind - whether emotional, physical, psychological, or some combination of all three. Why would anyone wish to stay in such a one-sided contract, enabling their own destruction? Why would anyone want to provide a technique for anyone to justify staying in such a relationship?

It's just a contract. Not a divine warrrant.

My two cents.

Francois

Hi Francios,

Thanks for your great comments!

You said:

I couldn't agree more! And I do not believe they should.

You also said:

Perhaps I was not clear above. I am not developing a technique to help someone stay in an alcoholic relationship. That has already been done with Al-Anon.

My program goes much further and actually endeavors to resolve the situation. Basically, there are only 2 alternatives:

1. The alcoholic recovers; or
2. The non-alcoholic leaves.

I believe far too many non-alcoholics stay far too long in grossly dysfunctional alcoholic relationships resulting in great harm to the family.

For more info on my approach, visit http://www.empoweredrecovery.com

FreePeace
"The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine
TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest
Who Am I? -How to Reinvent Yourself After Leaving the WTS

Bravo, Francois!

I was in an alcoholic marriage for 9 years. I was not a JW at the time, as I was married a second time after leaving the JW's.

What ended the marriage. My husband got to the point where he was drunk around the clock. One night when the alcoholic was particularly abusive, my daughter was driving us (me, my daughter and 2-year-old granddaughter) to a hotel for the night. We were pulling out of the driveway when the alcoholic jumped onto the hood of the car and started beating the car with his fists. He jumped on top of the car, pounded several dents into the top of the car, and broke the windshield. Fortunately, my daughter kept a cool head and got us out of there.

I went back after that, but not for long. The abuse went on. I was never abused physically, but in every other sense of the word, I was abused badly.

Apparently, despite what they tell you in Al-Anon, he knew just what he was doing. He wanted me to unload the kids and come back so that I could devote myself to enabling him full-time. After getting away and getting a better perspective, I realized that it was better to stay away. After I began to ridicule his professions of "love," he stopped trying to get me back. I remain his friend, but from a couple of thousand miles away, which makes it much easier.

The only way one can remain in an alcoholic relationship is to have an unlimited tolerance for abuse. My father was an alcoholic, too, but my mom had a supportive and loving family which gave her strength to tolerate it and also a place to get away for a while if necessary.

However, having a tolerance for abuse to yourself is one thing. No one should have a tolerance of an abusive environment for a child to grow up in. Believe me, I know.

I spoke to my minister, and he supported my decision to leave. He said that it would be ridiculous to live a masquerade "for the sake of the institution of marriage." Bless him.

Regards,
Mum

Seize the day, and put the least possible trust in tomorrow. - Horace

I have learned to live each day as it comes and not to borrow trouble by dreading tomorrow. - Dorothy Dix

What ever happened to “for better or for worse?” I hope one would get help first................

The alcoholic has to want help first. No one can force them to seek help. I know this for a fact as I too have been in an alcoholic relationship. When you continue to stay, you are in fact saying it is ok for them to continue drinking.

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent"

Eleanor Roosevelt

Greetings FP,

In the late 1970's I took the "est" training. It was a great experience for me. During one of the sessions, a woman got up to share. She was married to an alcoholic and started to tell her sob story to the trainer. He stopped her mid-sentence and said, "I will tell you what to do. You're married to an alcholic, right?" "Yes," she replied. "Well, then buy him another bottle," he answered.

The whole audience including myself was shocked! How horrible! How cruel! We weren't ready yet to see the wisdom in his statement. She protested vigorously, and he kept telling her to buy him another bottle.

It finally dawned on all of us what he was getting at. She could not "change" him, and if she wanted to stay with him, she had to accept him just the way he was, and that meant "buying him another bottle." The only one who could change him was himself.

Others may not agree with this approach, but it makes a lot of sense to me. There are only two options for the non-alcoholic spouse:

1) Buy another bottle for the alcoholic
2) Get the hell out of that situation

You wisely chose option two in your life. Option one is only for those who get a bang out of enabling, and believe it or not, that option works in some people's lives. To each his own.

Farkel

"I didn't mean what I meant."

A thousand pardons FreePeace if I have imputed to you, and I have, a desire to help someone learn how to stay in an alcoholic relationship. I should have known better than to think that someone with your obvious level of sophistication and intelligence would essay such an impossibility.

My fallback position when dealing with women in abusive relationships of whatever kind is to recommend reading Susan Forward's, "Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them." It's amazing how many women recognize themselves and bug out. Lucky them.

As for getting help, alcoholics typically don't seek help until they are at the bottom of the barrel with nothing else to lose and with nowhere to go but up. Why hang around for that?

Francois

You know you hear the stories of an alchoholic that has reached his bottom, and then decides he/she needs to quit drinking? I think it is the same as the person who lives with one. They reach a point when it is no longer bearable and they want out. I do know of many situations that a partner is comfortable with the other person being an alchoholic, and actually stay in the relationship for years with no problems.

I was with a man for 3 years and married to him for less then 6 months, when I reached my bottom, and got out. I know if I never had my daughter, then I would probably still be in that relationship.

Alot of lonely nights when they are passed out. Alot of misunderstandings because you are dealing with a person who's mind is altered. Alot of "I am sorry." Alot of making up. Alot of times you miss out on other things because beer is bought first. Alot of nights taking care of your partner instead of being partners.

I can honestly say towards the end of our relationship, I was going to Al-Anon. And he was in AA, we also were in counseling. He made alot of efforts to quit drinking and smoking pot, and we came to a point in therapy that the therapist wanted his mom to come in and discuss some issues with us. I feel this was the downfall. She denied he was an alcoholic, and said he had no problems, and wished that we would just leave him alone. Of course he took this and ran with it, becasue he wanted to hear it. And he went back to drinking and smoking again, and his abusive behavior. We were so close, but he was not and is not ready, he is drinking to this day.

I agree with Farkel, and it is something that Al-Anon taught me. I had only 2 choices, live with it, enabling him, or get out and save my sanity. I chose my sanity, and safety. It was not the easy way, trust me, we had already split up and got together again numerous times. But when I decided enough was enough it was final.

I think the biggest thing to help a person who is living with an alchoholic is to, make a list of things that are missing in their lives, or things that are altered due to living with this disease. Honestly going over every aspect of your life is hard to do, but worth it to see it on paper.

I will be interested to read your paper when you are finished with it. I may have some more to add, but will email you later with it.
wendy

When I leave, you will know I have been here

Yes, Francois, that is an excellent point that alcoholics do not get help until they hit bottom. I have an addicted brother and had an addicted husband. Both have such felicitous lives with guaranteed incomes that it is impossible, short of some global cataclysm, for that bottom to be reached.

Hitting bottom is a disguised blessing for those who experience it. It is being forced to come face to face with the truth that brings about change.

Seize the day, and put the least possible trust in tomorrow. - Horace

I have learned to live each day as it comes and not to borrow trouble by dreading tomorrow. - Dorothy Dix

What keeps me in the relationship? Good question. The main thing is that I am probably too stupid to give up....to admit that there is no hope.

In some ways this attitude is good, because it has allowed me to overcome many things that others said were impossible. With this issue, however, the solution is not in my hands, but in his.

Although I realize this, and am going on with my life....which is rather strange because I oftentimes feel like a widow already....I find it nearly impossible to give up and get out.

He does try, albeit not very successfully, and the major problem is that I'm left on my own most of the time while he drinks himself into a stupor. I have my friends and my activities, and I do regret that most of the time I have to do things by myself, but I'm just not ready to throw in the towel yet. Foolish....yes?

RedHorseWoman,

: Although I realize this, and am going on with my life....which is rather strange because I oftentimes feel like a widow already....

That is a perfectly normal reaction. I read once that wives of alcoholics view those bottles in exactly the same way as they would view a husband's mistress: the bottle gets all the time, love and attention, and the "wife" gets left-overs, if any.

Take care and do what's right for you.

Farkel

"I didn't mean what I meant."

This is absolutely true....and very, very sad. Although he cares deeply, the alcohol rules. When it calls, everything else is put aside.

Thanks for your good thoughts, Farkel.

RHW,

You have my sympathies. I was married to an alcoholic for 15 years. Most people don't realize it, but it takes alot of strength to stay with one for so long. You have to be good at doing things alone...and taking care of yourself.

For me, I reached a point where I just had no more to give. I had all the joy and vibrancy for life sucked right out of me. I was doing all the giving...and maintaining my own emotional well being...and the well just ran dry one day. He wasn't an evil man...and he probably still loves me to this day, but I had to get out of that relationship to save myself, or my kids would have had no stable adult in their lives. I don't know if it will come to that for you, but you have my sympathies and support wherever you're at.

think41self

Holy Flying Screaming Buddha, Batman!

Someone said earlier that no one wants to be in a relationship with a drunk. The exception to that rule is the Co-Dependent I should think.

Remember, Alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages. I say that as a recovering alkie.

Many many marriages do survive with neither the Alcoholic or the spouse (usually an enabler) staying together. Yes, there generally is some type of emotional abuse, even if it's limited to dealing with a drunk.

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

My husband's a recovering alcoholic. I stayed with him because I knew that inside he wasn't the person he became under the influence of alcohol. I'd had some problems with drugs when I was younger, and I can understand how someone can act in a way that is against their grain while under the influence.

Anyway, after our daughter was born, I became less understanding of his irresponsible behavior and angry outbursts. I did end up taking our daughter and leaving after he attacked me physically one night. We still kept in close contact, but I made it clear that I wasn't going to subject myself and our daughter to that environment any longer. I tried to encourage him to get help, and let him know that I would support his efforts to get a grip on his life. I guess that was his wake up call because he put himself in a rehab and continued with AA after he got out. He had to reach the point in his life where he wanted help and was willing to look honestly at his attitudes and behavior. I'm so glad that he did and that I didn't turn my back on him when he reached that point.

We reunited and have now been happier than we ever have for the past few years.

The way my faith factored in was that I couldn't hate or condemn him for his actions. It may have made me more forgiving in our early years when it became obvious to me that he had a problem. Perhaps I would have left sooner without it.

In any event, I had to put our daughters interests above his and mine. I was raised in a house with an alcoholic father and it had very detrimental effects on me and my siblings. I don't want that for her. I'm glad that he agreed.

Wow! This is so powerful. I've never thought about it that way. Yeru, thank you so much for sharing, but let me ask you a question: What keeps you sober?

Andi

Hi Doug, I sent this post to my niece, at her work. No computer at her house. She is the one who left her alcoholic husband a few weeks ago.

She was happy to get this info, and said she really wanted to email you. But their email is monitered where she works (for the city) and she was afraid to do it, not wanting it to get onto the circuit, so to speak.

Anyway, this is really helping her. Good job!!

Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)

Andi,

You asked "what keeps you sober" The answer ... NOT DRINKING ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGES! HA!
No, I rely on my higher power (yes AA really works) My higher power is God.

YERUSALYIM
"Vanity! It's my favorite sin!"
[Al Pacino as Satan, in "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE"]

Yeru,

I've been in and out of Al-Anon for almost 10 years now. I believe the courage it takes to live a life of sobriety, is unbelievably admirable! I have a few friends that are alcoholic/drug addicts, some recovering some not. I have the utmost regard for those that have faced their demons and lived a healthy, fulfilling, fun life without the crutch of substance abuse. It makes me proud to be considered one of their friends. But the one common thread I've witnessed for those that are in recovery is exactly what you mentioned. A Higher Power. I find that interesting...

Andi