"I'm Perfect, You're Doomed" discussion...

Has anyone read this book?

I figured I had to comment because everyone was telling me “Oh Tim, you’re going to love this book.  She went to the same assemblies as you, she was raised in a similar household, she did poetry slams as well.  Seriously you have to get this book.”

Seriously, I wish I hadn’t. 

It took about 25 pages for me to think “You know I really don’t like this girl very much.”  It took 50 pages for me to say “I’m pretty sure I hate this person.”  Now 295 pages into the novel I can honestly say that if I met the girl I’d probably strangle her; or at the very least chuck her the bird (and I don’t mean show her my middle finger, I think I would actually attempt to throw a live pidgeon at her).

I understand writing a book as some sort of catharsis, she must have proof-read this book before putting it out.  I don’t know how she can’t see herself as just the biggest whiny, spoiled, little brat imaginable.  I have read stories about JWs who have been disfellowshipped which really seemed they were on a rollercoaster and they had no control over what was happening because the way they were raised.  I’ve read stories that made me cry, they moved me completely.  Did bad things happen to this girl?  Of course, you were raised in a cult my dear.  It comes with the territory.  However, at every instance the only thing I could bring myself to is: you brought this upon yourself.

I mean, maybe I’m being too harsh; I’m not really sure that’s why I’m posting my thoughts here to see what others think.  Maybe it’s because we’re both from similar areas and similar ages.  I mean really Coventry and Pawtucket are literally a stone’s throw from each other.  She described the same assemblies that I went to, did the same things I did, she observed some of the same things, her parents didn’t like each other, mine had tried to kill each other (that’s not an exaggeration).  She was in a gifted program when she was a child, I was in a gifted program when I was a child.  She dropped out of school, got married too young, and fell into every single vice that the JWs warn you about before leaving.  All the while people were telling her “don’t drop out of school, you’ll regret it” or “You’re awfully young to get married, shouldn’t you wait a few years?” or “You’re awfully young to be joining the Ministry School, don’t you think you should wait a few years?” or even “Are you sure you want to be baptized?”.  I mean really, what I wouldn’t give to have caring elders like that giving me advice that was in my best interest instead of in the best interest of the Kingdom Hall.  “Tim, you like Crystal don’t you.  You know you could be baptized at the next assembly so she’d consider marrying you” (at age 15), “Tim you are a great speaker, you should become a full time minister”; (at 13)  “What are you wasting your time in school for, you hate it, you could go to Bethel and get free room and board AND $50 a week to spend.” (3 months shy of graduating high school)  “I’m going to sign you up for the ministry school because you write so well, give it a few weeks then tell me if you want to back out.” (at age 12)

For the life of me I don’t know why anyone would feel sympathy in the slightest for this girl.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about people writing about their time in the organization warts and all, it seems she focused so much on the warts though.  Well, let me know anyone who’s read the book if they feel similarly or differently.

Completly different opinion. To me, with all due respect, you are the one whinning here. Her 'funny' approach to what we lived as basically children forced into the religion is sort of a catharsis... others cry she laughes and made me laugh about how stupid this whole religious thing is. The fact that you feel you would 'strangle her' tells me she hit a nerve within you.

People who have lived similar experiences have basically 2 options:

1. Get frustrated and cry and whine about what happened and turn  in a bitter sourpuss.

2. Get frustrated and cry, then laugh about the whole situation... and pity those who are still in it ( in completly or  out but still under the spell of this utterly and totally stupid religious concept).

Laughter is still the best medicine...

I thought it was quite good....almost as funny as war and peace....with pillows!

          ninja the book critic

People who have lived similar experiences have basically 2 options:
1. Get frustrated and cry and whine about what happened and turn  in a bitter sourpuss.
2. Get frustrated and cry, then laugh about the whole situation... and pity those who are still in it ( in completly or  out but still under the spell of this utterly and totally stupid religious concept).

No, those are not the only two "options." There are as many styles of coping as there are personalities.

While I respect the author of the book for writing about her experiences, I'm glad to read a critical review of it, since I probably wouldn't have cared for the tone that much. I'm sure some people will like it, but it sounds like the tone wouldn't really appeal to me.

I haven't read it yet, but I appreciate your honest remarks, Tuesday!

I personally take book reviews with a grain of salt, especially if the topic and tone is of interest to me, simply because it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round, as they say, so just because somebody doesn't like something doesn't mean everyone won't.

And everyone is also entitled to their opinions! So, I appreciate the review.

~GoddessRachel

(P.S. My first post on the "new" site - how exciting!)

I think you are missing the point, Tuesday.  Maybe not.  It's ok to not like a book.

But... you really aren't supposed to like the author.  It was clearly not written to gain sympathy (though she has mine).  It just exposes one persons personal story with JWs.  Maybe she comes across a different way to you, but I see a very ignorant, poorly raised teenage girl.  This person had enough problems to begin with, and then things were made so much worse when those problems were amplified by ridiculous JW teachings and beliefs. 

I made a lot of the same mistakes she did.  And I was turning into a bad person.  Thats what that life was creating for me, because like the author, I had no concept of true right and wrong.  JWs taught me to be selfish and wait for something divine to make my life better.  I had to leave the JWs to find peace and become a better person.  I imagine the same is true of the author.

The book only provides a snapshot of this most trying time in her life.  If there was a book about that period of time in my life.. you wouldn't like me either.

But I wouldn't expect you to.

-N

Also, I found the book to be hilarious.  But thats just because it's exactly my type of humor.

But... you really aren't supposed to like the author.

Since it's marketed as a true story, this is moot.

But... you really aren't supposed to like the author.  It was clearly not written to gain sympathy (though she has mine).  It just exposes one persons personal story with JWs.  Maybe she comes across a different way to you, but I see a very ignorant, poorly raised teenage girl.  This person had enough problems to begin with, and then things were made so much worse when those problems were amplified by ridiculous JW teachings and beliefs.

She came off to me definitely as ignorant.  I feel if the book conveyed more so how exactly it was the religion exacerbated her problems more, I would probably enjoy the book more.  It just seems to me the entire time she's making mistakes people are telling her that she's making mistakes, and it's not them giving JW advice leading her down the wrong path.  I mean it's people giving her actual advice that is solely to help her.  It's hard for me to get into any sort of story without liking the main character, if I don't like the person I don't care.

I made a lot of the same mistakes she did.  And I was turning into a bad person.  Thats what that life was creating for me, because like the author, I had no concept of true right and wrong.  JWs taught me to be selfish and wait for something divine to make my life better.  I had to leave the JWs to find peace and become a better person.  I imagine the same is true of the author.

Which if this was somehow conveyed more in the book I would probably like it alot better.  Not many people understand wrestling psychology, but one of the most effective things that I've ever been told was by Michael Hayes.  He told me that even as a heel you have to be completely justified in your actions.  An example would be when the Freebirds were doing everything in their power to destroy the Von Erichs the reason for that is they felt they were spoiled little daddy's boys who had the odds stacked in their favor so they had to go to the lengths they did in order to get an even slate.

Unless I'm missing her motivations, or the motivations are really simply selfish.

Also, I found the book to be hilarious.  But thats just because it's exactly my type of humor.

Eh, to each their own.  Some people like ridiculous amounts of 80's references, or else Family Guy wouldn't be doing so well on TV.  Some others like the Simpsons who's satire is a little more biting.

On the bright side, those who haven't read the book can see two sides here.  It seems people like it, I definetly do not.  I hope that people aren't just giving it a free pass because it's a book about a former Jehovah's Witness and they are former Jehovah's Witnesses.

The book is not for everyone, but I loved it.  My sister found it too sad.  She stopped halfway through it because it hit home too much.  Despite my sister's lack of finishing the book, I thought that was the greatest credit to the book, letting my sister see how someone else was brought up to be screwed up for various reasons including JW's, drugs, sexual relations, marriage.

It was trying to be funny, and I can see that it wasn't hysterical in every paragraph no matter how hard Kyria tried.
But that was what made the book important to me.  Here was an extremely sad story told in dry humor in an attempt to address the issues.

I don’t know how she can’t see herself as just the biggest whiny, spoiled, little brat imaginable. 

I cannot speak for Kyria, but I imagine she sees herself for what she is.  She's not asking people to see her as JUST a victim of her upbringing, but she wants to acknowledge her upbringing and it's effect on her path, and wants others to benefit in anyway they can.  If she is a whiny, spoiled brat, perhaps a reader would see how they don't want to raise their daughter in the same way. 

It took 50 pages for me to say “I’m pretty sure I hate this person.”

Kyria probably hates the person she was.  That's okay to hate her.

 However, at every instance the only thing I could bring myself to is: you brought this upon yourself.

Consider for a moment- a girl in gifted class whose parents don't encourage them to advance toward being a scientist or a doctor or an athlete or something besides a wife of a JW.  Even without the JW factor, we are learning from this book that a mind is a terrible thing to waste.  Consider raising children to avoid the opposite sex, dating, premarital relations of any kind.  This is what I noticed from the book- not assigning blame, but telling a true story and letting the reader pick out the obstacles in that life and reflect on their own obstacles. 

On the negative side, I do think that trying to put Vaudeville-type humor in every paragraph was a bit heavier than I cared for.  To me, that just added to the sadness of the story.  I liked it, but had to get used to the style of humor. 

There is no question that she fell for a lot of harmful vices that the dubs try to keep people away from. Perhaps if she could have gotten the sense of what the dubs were saying in these areas, her life at that time may have been different. But it and she didn't. And that's the point. This is an account of HER life growing up as a dub. It's not good or bad, it just is. And it makes the point that WT is not the perfect organization it pretends to be. It is not as successful as it thinks in helping people out of difficulties. Many times it causes these difficulties. That being said, different people will react differently to it. That's why a wide variety of books and materials are needed so that different sorts of people can relate to leaving the JW's and perhaps leave themselves. Or if they have left, can find comfort in that they are not alone in their feelings and experiences.

Consider for a moment- a girl in gifted class whose parents don't encourage them to advance toward being a scientist or a doctor or an athlete or something besides a wife of a JW.  Even without the JW factor, we are learning from this book that a mind is a terrible thing to waste.  Consider raising children to avoid the opposite sex, dating, premarital relations of any kind.

That's actually what annoyed me the most, I was in the same situation as she was.  I was in the gifted programs at school, and my mother was trying to convince me to become a plumber.  Anyone who was raised a JW was raised to avoid the opposite sex and so forth.

This may be a symptom of leaving JWs that everything JW related should be used as a tool to inform people on how to leave and why it's OK to leave.  In this case, I think it very much does the opposite. 

It seems like I'm in the minority of not liking this book though.  So this looks like it might be a recommended reading for ex-JWs.

I just finished the book.  I felt sadness for her as I do for all JW youth.  I found her different than me as a child, teenager, young adult.  I toed the JW life into my 30s.  Some of her remarks/ways as a child, teenager would have scared me to death and I may/would have been judgemental.   I would have never quit school.  However, I do understand the struggle for a JW kid going to school, juggling that tight-rope life where you are not even allowed to integrate socially at any level. 

How can a JW kid "love" school fully, not easily, where you can not celebrate simple kids stuff,,,cannot join extra-curricular fun programs or sports, the arts (Kyria's interest) etc., call door to door on your classmates and even teachers.  You are doomed to be an oddball to some degree.  The Watchtower Society clearly criticizes college education of being of any value.  That attitude can easily trickle down to some JW kids having a hard time.  Kyria was crying out, who would have cared in her world?  She was "cutting" herself and threatening suicide, interpreted that she was just trying to get attention, yes,,but that was serious.  How much does the Watchtower Society nullifying and choke the spirit of their youth?l  Her JW world and parents would not encourage her to get her some professional mental/emotional health care, which JWs are only taught a paranoia at best that the counselor would probably try  to break down their faith.  

She married too young.  Most JW kids get married too young, not enough maturity and not enough of life skills and there is a very high rate of divorce.  My JW marriage ended in divorce too though we married in our late 20s at Bethel and married 21 yrs.  Hard to prove, but I suspect JW marriages have a higher divorce rate than the national rate. 

So she became out of control, feeling "doomed" now herself and nowhere to go as the Society closed down in her mind to any normal healthy sources or options.   She made other additional negative, harmful choices.

The exJW kids have a hard path, especially when their own parents shunned them.  (I sometimes wonder how parents can shun their own kids unless it in some way makes them feel righteous even though they themselves obviously were not so "perfect" as parents themselves) It's terrible!

Kyria seems to have had to go through a lot of "hard knocks", many learning experiences to move on through.   I can only hope now with the Internet with information and facts that more JW youth can be informed of the "dooming" Watchtower Society and see it as a destructive religion and not worth the youth investing their life, education and freeminds in it.   

Since I was a "sinful" teenage witness myself, I think I understand her motivations a bit better.  The thing is, even when you're sinning and breaking the rules, you still believe wholeheartedly that the JWs are the truth.  And so, when she gets married, she does so because its an easy fix to her life at home, and it doesn't matter that she doesn't love the person, because God is going to fix everything anyway.

Being a JW really fueled a sort of wreckless abandon with me, and a lot of people I know.  Whether you thought you'd make it through armegeddon or not, you still believed it was coming, and so doing anything with the long term in mind was really stupid.  I've known former JWs who somehow escaped this feeling, but Kyria fell victim to it, as well as me.

Of course she should have known better.  Everyone "should" know better.  But how was she supposed to know better?  At what point was she really, clearly instructed on the right path to take?  Any good advice somebody gives her is immediately overwritten by the overall theme of being a JW, which is that the world is coming to an end, so fuck it.

It isn't a story about lessons learned, its just a story.  Thats why its sad, because this situation doesn't miraculously fix itself.  A lot of us came out of the "truth", some more damaged than others.  Its nice for someone like me to read someones story of becoming damaged.  Its cathartic. 

I liked a lot, and agree whole-heartedly with Nathan on the take that she's not supposed to be "likeable".

Christ, not many early-20-something are, horrible emotional messes making all the wrong choices, (or was that just me?!).

I liked the book because for once it wasn't a tale of how the JW's made me a victim and it couldn't be helped. I think it's a fine balance. Was she unprepared being raised a JW, yeah...but, she still made crap choices. Frankly, I can relate, especially at that age in my life. "What random sex with people I barely know is a bad idea? Are you sure? I mean the JW's say that's wrong, but they also told me I'd live forever on earth with puppies and lions, and they were wrong about that -- maybe I'll just give it a whirl anyway."

I think it illustrates that while yes we are ill-prepared for life "outside", it's still our lives to do with what we will. We may destroy them, we may redeem ourselves, but for the first time they are truly our lives. I think instead of it being a preachy tale of "Wow - those JW's sure did f' me over" - it was more about - "sheesh I was f'ed."

It was sad, I did relate a lot to her dark places, but I moved past them. I only wish we could have seen the author come past it. It seemed to end rather ubruptly - but with hope. I just wish we could have seen more hope. Because there is hope, and no matter how f'ed up I was, I was able to pull it together finally, and on my own terms.

I just read it, so I'll chime in.

What struck me most, was how similar our lives and stories were.  I wasn't the only one with parents who fought, getting to get to the KH were the pre-fights, worried about slinking in late to meetings and how it looked, the high number of peopel with serious emotional people in the JWs.....  everyone has the same "JW story"! 

I don't know why this sameness has me baffled. It shouldn't.  The WTS has created each KH to be a McDonalds style; same sermons, same music, same policies, same recruitment technique, same discipline.  Put people in, people have the same experience (but thinking their life disattisfaction is "their" problem) during it.

I especially found interesting that she had trouble catagorizing serious sins, and just lumped sins together in one big "don't go there" bucket in her mind.  I remember struggling the same questions, and finding my own answer.

I will call the author the Alanis Morissette of the writing world.  Very funny, very biting, and very true satire of the JW life experience. 

I too was in the gifted program. Luckily at the time I was in school, my father was disfellowshipped and both my parents went back to college (after 1975).  They encouraged me to go to college, as long as I lived at home.  This was good, even though I gave up an almost full scholarship to an almost Ivy League school in Boston to attend their engineering program based on super high science scores.  I wonder how my life would have been different.  But, I am glad my glass is half full and I went to college and had parents who pushed me despite the dire warnings that the Generation of 1914 would not pass away.

Sorry for the typos and bad writing.  I didnt' check, can't make corrections, and haven't slept much in 48 hours.  I'm going to get some sleep. Goodnight y'all.  Skeeter

I especially found interesting that she had trouble catagorizing serious sins, and just lumped sins together in one big "don't go there" bucket in her mind.

This is created by the Watchtower.  It  stresses every little thing as big deal, wraps it all up with a scripture like "faithful in little, faithful in much."  The Society makes kids feel so guility about every little thing, they often finally give up.  

I enjoyed the book and don't pity her.  It doesn't bother me that her story confirms the watchtower stereotypes or not.  Those stereotypes are going to exist regardless.  Honestly I agree that she has only herself to blame for many of the poor decisions she made.  

So often we expect a book by an ex-JW to be some expose on the organization focusing on historical and doctrinal minutiae.  I did find the first half of the book funny.  The humor to me was a mixture of Douglas Adams and Wil Wheton.  Halfway through though it gets dark and stops being funny.  I have to confess it was not an enjoyable read through the second half, and I had a lot of the same feelings Tim had, namely, she was really a bad person.  I mean the part where she gets married to a guy that normally wouldn't have a chance just shows a lot of cruelty on her part.  Her story actually made me feel a bit sorry for her dad and ex-husband.  I know I'd be devastated if I came home one day and all of the sudden my fiance told me she didn't love me anymore, after giving me ZERO indication that there was a problem.  And so her character is flawed.  So what?  I mean would you rather she just shut up and not talk about it?  I mean you can fault her to a point, but just because she didn't have the inspiring exit story where she goes off to college, marries a wonderful worldly guy and now lives in a house in the suburbs with a 2-car garage/runs a multinational corporation/competes in the Iron Man Triathlon/etc. doesn't mean that her story isn't somehow legitimate.

I just don't understand why some of us think that every story by an ex-JW needs to have an anti-Watchtower angle to it.

As far as the whole "manatee joke" allegation I don't really see it.  It's a memoir so it's going to jump around a bit, but it wasn't like she wastalking about the horrible singing at the Kingdom Hall and then immediately breaks into a "it's like that time I slept with Bill clinton" sidetrack.  Maybe I'll have to read the book again.