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The hidden message in the June 15 2009 watchtower.

    M Hobo Ken posted Fri, 08 May 2009 17:40:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 124 of 313
    Joined 8/4/2008

    This study will set the tone for future-proofing the Watchtower Society Doctrine that their Governing Body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by Jesus in Matthew24.

    I thought as I read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.

    The first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.

    "while giving the composite sign of the last days Jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?"

    I believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it. WITHOUT MENTIONING WHEN THEY BECAME SUCH.

    They then say that Jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings. Again crucially no time frame is given for this event.

    As the article progresses the usual warnings and spiritual "food" is of course served.

    Look at paragraphs 6. under the heading " The slave appears"

    " it came into existence in 33c.e." They use a legitimate Bible event and claim that was Jesus "starting off" the "slave Class" in Pentecost.

    The stuff that's then discussed about who did the teaching is beside the point, the real question is do they have the modern right to BE THE TEACHERS?

    So how do they move through the gears and apply this ongoing "class" to themselves in modern times?

    Usually we would find a dogmatic statement like " Jesus appointed this faithful slave in 1919 after he arrived in kingdom power in 1914"

    It is nowhere to be seen!!!

    I firmly believe that since it is a provable fact that 1914 is being mentioned less and less in the WTS publications then it would follow that the year 1919 also will be devalued as the two dates are inextricably linked.

    This article would be the perfect place to reinforce the 1919 dogma to the Rank and file JW's in a private study article.

    Of course there are no scriptures that support the assertion that Jesus arrived in 1919 and appointed the WTS Governing Body or President to such a position, but since when did the Bible get in the way of a good WTS doctrine?

    The Governing Body is well aware of the weakness of their chronology which begins with the year 607 and ends with 1914.

    The book "gentile times reconsidered" delivers a fatal blow to the significance the wts attach to 607. They know this. They have the manuscripts.

    I firmly believe they are moving away from these dates and the claims associated with them. Instead they are using something altogether more tangible.

    Please look to paragraph 11 where they make the link between the opening statement in par. 1 and the claim that the "slave" "appeared" in 33ce.

    This paragraph states that "Jesus words clearly indicate that there would still be a faithful and discreet slave class living on earth at the time of the end"

    What words of Jesus? Matthew 24:45 " who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time?"

    Where in this verse which they quote from is Jesus referring to a "class"?

    Where does Jesus say they would be "living on earth at the time of the end"?

    These are suppositions that the WTS have to insert to validate the claims which are made in this paragraph.(11)

    "As a group this remnant has been appointed over all of Christs belongings here on earth."

    What would these belongings be?

    This is the most important point which is in my opinion hidden in the rest of the flannel this article contains.

    The "belongings" are the "kingdoms earthly subjects". Yes the 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses are proof that this slave has been appointed!!!

    The belongings are also "the material facilities used in preaching the good news" Yes all the Kingdom Halls, Assembly Halls, Branches, Printing operations and the worldwide Headquarters in Brooklyn N.Y. are PROOF THAT THEY WERE APPOINTED!!!

    What more does an honest-hearted need by way of proof than that?

    We exist so therefore we are what we say we are. Classic circular WTS reasoning. Who can argue that there are NOT 7 million JW's around the world and all the of the "material facilities"?

    This is a far easier position to substantiate and maintain than the 1919 "appointment" considering it has no scriptural , historical and logical weight behind it. It is becoming almost laughable to mention the date of 1919 in relation to their claim of God-given authority considering we are a decade into th 21st century.

    I now think that this is the new "Proof" of their authority. The JW aren't going to be hard to convince , most of them cite these reasons as to why they believe it's "the truth" so why not base your authority on it as well? Makes sense.

    I asked my brother about the scriptural validity of 1919 and he said "well yes, it was around about then, but we don't want to be dogmatic about it"

    It is a bit late to say that , or is it?

    Matt.

    M Hobo Ken posted Fri, 08 May 2009 17:48:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 125 of 313
    Joined 8/4/2008

    My blog on this post is here.

    http://deathorobedience.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-light-on-wts-being-appointed.html

    H.K.

    journey-on posted Fri, 08 May 2009 17:51:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 2889 of 5333
    Joined 2/28/2007
    What would these belongings be?
    This is the most important point which is in my opinion hidden in the rest of the flannel this article contains.
    The "belongings" are the "kingdoms earthly subjects". Yes the 7 million Jehovah's Witnesses are proof that this slave has been appointed!!!

    Next thing they are going to want is the belongings of the belongings.....(Is mandatory tithing on its way?)

    creativhoney posted Fri, 08 May 2009 17:52:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 45 of 912
    Joined 4/29/2009

    Hey Ken. i just had a thought, - its friday night, we left the witnesses, is it possible you spend more time studying the watchtower now than before?

    lol I am just teasing by the way, but I think after all that you should have a beer. x

    F snowbird posted Fri, 08 May 2009 17:55:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 7276 of 23468
    Joined 5/2/2007

    If the "slave class" appeared in 33 CE, I wonder why the Risen Master didn't use one of them to appoint the Apostle Paul?

    Or, one of them to give instruction to Ananias?

    Reading chapter 9 of Acts convinced me how absurd the WT's position is.

    Sylvia

    M sir82 posted Fri, 08 May 2009 18:03:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 2911 of 8732
    Joined 5/17/2005

    I don't think they are ready to abandon the dates 1914 & 1919 yet, and probably won't, at least officially, for many decades. But it is interesting that neither date appears in an entire article justifying the authority wielded by the Governing Body.

    M wobble posted Fri, 08 May 2009 18:08:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 822 of 5745
    Joined 2/20/2008

    I met with a bunch of Dubs in the supermarket this morning,(my Dub Alert radar must have been switched off)and one old timer said to me "I think its time they moved the goalposts again" he was referring to the lack of any fulfillment of their predictions, I replied "If theyhave to move the goalposts yet again,who is directing them?" he quickly moved the conversation on.

    But I guess you are spot on,Hobo, the Dubs will all swallow this latest silliness as Noo Lite ,instead of new shite, which it is.

    Love

    Wobble

    M Hobo Ken posted Fri, 08 May 2009 22:15:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 126 of 313
    Joined 8/4/2008

    >creativehoney

    Lol you are probably right on both counts. Now I have a reason to study their BS. Expose them and get others out and stop people joining.

    I need a beer.....

    >snowbird.

    You think you are having a laugh when you say "I wonder why the risen master didn't use them to appoint the apostle Paul?"

    That exactly what they say in paragraph 9 of this same article "his appointment was confirmed by the Governing Body in Jerusalem".

    The phrase Governing Body does not even appear in the Bible!!!!!!!!!!

    I cannot believe they get to say whatever they want.

    >wobble.

    Spot on.

    They swallow, we spit.

    H.K.

    M Hobo Ken posted Fri, 08 May 2009 22:16:00 GMT(5/8/2009)

    Post 127 of 313
    Joined 8/4/2008

    >journeyon

    Empty your pockets.

    Hopscotch posted Sat, 09 May 2009 08:43:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

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    Joined 3/9/2009

    Hobo Ken

    This is interesting. I have been thinking for a while that somehow the WTS is going to have to quietly drop the 1919 thing. So many today have access to the internet and are able to find out what rubbish Russell & Co were actually teaching in 1919, the year that they were supposedly appointed as the faithful and discreet slave. Not long before my family started shunning me I tried to point out this to them, telling them about Russell and the pyramid thing and all the other ridiculous stuff he was teaching, but my sister just said to me "haven't we (JWs) moved on from there!". Typical witness, head in the sand about what they actually believe, response. But in my opinion there is too much knowledge out there today about the origins of the witnesses that the WTS will have to try and distance themselves from it. Just my take.

    Hopscotch

    M wobble posted Sat, 09 May 2009 09:19:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

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    I am sure you are right Hoppie (and Hobo),

    They have to distance themselves because there Is NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER to support a choosing in 1919.Their problem is that"distancing" takes time,the click of a mouse does not,so we will see more strong advice against Internet use I expect.

    Love

    Wobble

    iknowall558 posted Sat, 09 May 2009 09:38:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

    Post 145 of 875
    Joined 3/26/2009

    It's the same trick that they've always used. The gradually mention something less and less until they stop mentioning it all together. The desired effect is achieved when the R & F just forget all about what ever it is they want to unhook themselves from. Out of sight , out of mind they say.

    M siy posted Sat, 09 May 2009 11:16:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

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    Joined 4/21/2004

    ken im into your blog & encounters with the elders, cant wait for june??!! is that when you will release the next installment.!?

    ( its like waiting for the next harry potter movie)

    diamondiiz posted Sat, 09 May 2009 12:53:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

    Post 60 of 1522
    Joined 3/15/2009

    Good points mentioned. I too think they will have to slowly and carefully move away from their BS dates. This way they will claim the light was starting to shine a while back and as they finally tell watchtower witnesses that 1914 is not applicable it will be some years from now and witnesses will be used to the fact that 1914 hasn't been mentioned for a time. If they do it gradually they may only loose a small number of followers who will have their mind open to the deception whereas the rest will just view this as a new light that the useless gb just revealed to them and they will rejoice.

    But a problem is they will have to replace 1914 with something else otherwise if that's not the start of the end - what is? Why go out and preach for the leaders? Will they feel that they have enough of the membership that their funds will continue to support them without the need to grow? Without a date implanted how many will feel the need to go and preach? Maybe they will continue saying that the end is near but the date is gone just as there really wasn't a starting date for first century fulfillment of last days of the Jewsih state.

    They have to decieve the rank and file in a manner of most turning the lie into a positive spin, pointing to those of us who know better and saying "see, our gb corrects the mistakes unlike other religions, Jehovah corrects things in his due time!" How will gb spin the doctrine to get witnesses to contribute more if the growth won't be occurring and especially if they start getting taxed on their sales or properties?

    WTWizard posted Sat, 09 May 2009 13:41:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

    Post 7547 of 14865
    Joined 5/10/2007

    I wonder if they are going to pick a new starting point, like having Armageddon supposedly happening in 2034. From then, they can build the scene that 2034 is the beginning of the end, starting again from there. Of course, that means they will need to redefine 607 or what "times" actually means.

    As for arguing that there are not 7 million witlesses around, I will give it my all. I believe there are quite a few fake time slips among the 7 million. Either they did no field circus at all but turned in a fake slip, or the hounder (under pressure from the hounder-hounder) turned in a fake slip so it would not be missing. There are also a lot of people that are in it because of pressure (if they quit, they will be hounded and possibly never see their family again). And, if you have a baby out in field circus, why not put in an extra slip for the baby to count toward that 7 million?

    I would like to see a TCMP style audit on that number. I wonder how many witlesses there would actually be if every fake slip, duplicate, miscounted slip, or slip turned in because of severe pressure or on behalf of small children would be thrown out. I bet it would be quite a bit less than 7 million.

    M passwordprotected posted Sat, 09 May 2009 13:54:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

    Post 1171 of 2246
    Joined 5/28/2008

    Surprisingly good post, Hobo.

    M Narkissos posted Sat, 09 May 2009 14:26:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

    Post 9064 of 9516
    Joined 9/27/2003

    Interesting indeed.

    Imo, 1919 is nothing but an embarrassing and useless technicality in the mind of the vast majority of current Witnesses. Once a religion is established, who really cares for a precise theoretical justification of its authority system? If you choose to be (or remain) there, that's how it works: whoever is the boss is the boss.

    Now 1914 (still imo) is a completely different matter. The point is neither how the WT got it (the great pyramid and 606 BC are long forgotten already, and it still works) nor even what it actually got (the "end," not beginning of last days), but simply that it got something. To the average Witness, this "something" boils down to "the WT predicted the date of WWI as the beginning of the end" -- historically false on both points, but quite useful as it still works as and of itself as a "sign" or "miracle" authenticating the organisation as a whole. As long as it works with 1914 only, no need to bother with 1919 which can only instill doubts. Now whether it could work without 1914 I'm not sure... yet.

    F quietlyleaving posted Sat, 09 May 2009 15:09:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

    Post 2100 of 2974
    Joined 6/22/2007

    100 years earlier in 1814 Napoleon abdicated the throne. Many of his opposers pictured him as satan. I wonder if 1914 was subconsciously embedded in consciousness in commemoration of Napoleon's ouster from heavenly imperial power. Makes more uncanny sense to me than WTS bible chronology

    edit:

    http://www.wwnorton.com/college/english/nael/romantic/topic_5/welcome.htm

    Byron identified another alter ego in the towering historical figure of Napoleon Bonaparte, who to the contemporary imagination combined, in Satan’s manner, moral culpability with awe-inspiring power and grandeur. Between 1795, when Napoleon took command of the armies of France, and 1815, when defeat at Waterloo banished him from Europe to his final exile, patriotic supporters of Britain’s war effort represented Napoleon as an infernal, blood-thirsty monster. These demonizing representations frequently alluded to the example of Milton’s “enemy of mankind,” as William Wordsworth did in an 1809 sonnet, “Look now on that Adventurer,” and George Cruikshank did in an 1815 cartoon depicting the colossus in exile on the tiny island of St. Helena. Satanizing Napoleon made for effective wartime propaganda because it invoked an already established plot, a narrative of inevitable downfall. Yet Byron’s complex response to the man, worked out over the entire body of his work, yields a contrasting account of history—and also, and in particular in the “ Ode to Napoleon Buonaparte ” he wrote following Napoleon’s abdication, a contrasting account of Milton’s fallen angel. To Byron, Napoleon represents both a figure of heroic aspiration and someone who has been shamefully mastered by his own passions—both a conqueror and, after Waterloo, a captive: Napoleon thus becomes as much the occasion for psychological analysis as for moral condemnation. There was more than a touch of self-projection in this account. (At a tongue-in-cheek moment in canto 11 of Don Juan, Byron dubs himself “the grand Napoleon of the realms of rhyme.”) The characteristic doubleness of the Byronic hero is dramatized in the story of Napoleon’s venturesome rise and inglorious fall.

    [Click on image to enlarge]

    M passwordprotected posted Sat, 09 May 2009 15:24:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

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    Joined 5/28/2008

    If you choose to be (or remain) there, that's how it works: whoever is the boss is the boss.

    This is a very good point, hence Hobo's brother saying we shouldn't be dogmatic about it. I reckon most JWs don't really care about the roots and origins of their religion. They only care about their next social outing, who's bitching about who behind who's back, the fact they don't need to "worship the Trinity" and whether the weather is going to be kind at this year's convention.

    M Narkissos posted Sat, 09 May 2009 15:55:00 GMT(5/9/2009)

    Post 9065 of 9516
    Joined 9/27/2003

    ql: not sure how your new light would fare this side of the Channel... you know, "Waterloo" translates "Austerlitz" as far as railroad stations are concerned.

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