Is WTS Behind Stalking, Espisonage and Harrassment of Ex-JWs?

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    Scott77 posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:35:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 52 of 3429
    Joined 4/3/2009

    Several Ex-Elders, Bethelites, Ministerial Servants, the rank and files of Ex-JWs on this site are writing about being stalked, harrassed, having their homes peeped through, car broken into while others such as gubberningbody, reports of recieving unsolicited calls from KH elders from another congregation. The numerous stories are very troubling. Although some members have denied this existance of this lllegal activity, the underlying question continues to puzzle our minds: Is WTS Behind Stalking, Espisonage and Harrassment of Ex-JWs? Please, relates your experience before and after leaving the this questionable organisation. Would it be appropriate to report this underground dirty work to law enforcement agencies? If so, how can one gather incredible and powerful evidences?

    Oho My God! Iam shocked to the bone. What a monster the WTS is! There is a guy on this site who reported that elders would camp outside his house from 7pm-7a ostensibly "to gather evidence against him." Not only is this seriously disturbing and sadening, but also is revealing expecially coming from those who claim to be 'God's true representative on this earth'. Iam yet to hear a court order for restraint or lawsuit from an Ex-JW. I think many of you will agree we tend to give them a "pass' because we know after all who they are.

    Hi steve2,

    After reading the above exerpt from the link provided, what is your conclusion? Is it logical to conclude that this is nothing but a 'juvenile allegation'? For your information, Paul Blizard is an Ex-Bethel insider, kind of modern-day 'whistle blower'.

    happpyexjw posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:41:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 71 of 186
    Joined 3/18/2009

    Scott, nothing would surprise me. When my JW brother had enough of his sorry excuse for a wife and left, he knew there was no way for him to leave with dignity. He left anyway, and moved away to another part of the state. I was still and uber JW at the time and was sad to see this happen, although I had to admit the wife was pitiful.

    Anyway, years later I learned that an elder who had been one of my friends in that part of the state actually participated with others in staking out my brother's home in order to gather evidence against him for fornication. (He was renting a room from a woman at the time) Whether this was an illicit relationship is not the issue here. The idea of these characters sitting outside his home in the middle of the night so they could "catch him the the act," is pretty far out. The elders seem to think they qualify as police, undercover cops, therapists, confessors, financial advisers and anything else that will give them more control over the "flock." Pretty incredible.

    M Amazing posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:53:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 4329 of 4238
    Joined 3/16/2001

    Scott77:

    Stalking does happen for various reasons. Sometimes, local Elders take it upon themselves to watch some JW suspected of wrongdoing.

    When I was giving testimony on behalf of abuse victims against the WTS, I was concerned about being monitored. I was able to establish that some party at the WTS headquarters attempted to hack my computer. My special designed security program stopped it ... and I moved my PC off line for several years. I used another PC without any data one it to conduct online activity.

    But, I do not believe that the Society or most Elders care to spy on JWs ... just when it becomes important to the interest of the Society in serious matters ... or in some cases where the local Elders are weird and feel the need to do so.

    Scott77 posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:58:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 53 of 3429
    Joined 4/3/2009

    The elders seem to think they qualify as police, undercover cops, therapists, confessors,

    financial advisers and anything else that will give them more control over the "flock." Pretty incredible.

    (happpyexjw)
    M steve2 posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:02:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 2273 of 8605
    Joined 10/31/2004

    Paranoia rules! Balance this juvenile allegation with the often-reported lack of contact from the elders. I'm sure that - with maybe one or two exceptions - JWs have neither the time nor the energy to engage in stalking activity.

    However, you may need to define what you mean by "stalking" because if you have evidence of this, you can report it to the police (at least in developed countries. On the other hand, if your paranoia is fuelled mainly by hunches or vague allegations, you will find plenty of other similar-minded people on the net who will happily stoke your fires of suspicion.

    M garybuss posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:09:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 7406 of 7501
    Joined 10/8/2001

    When I was a young Witness Merlin Marvin from Vermillion and Lance Roberts from Yankton South Dakota stalked me. If those bastards did that today, they'd be in prison where they belong.

    After I went public with my Witness story, Witnesses RUN away from me. I sure don't have any stalking problems with them today:-) The crop of Witnesses I see today are little more than bumbling idiots. They couldn't find their way out of a paper bag with a map and a flashlight.

    M sir82 posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:17:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 2823 of 9167
    Joined 5/17/2005
    Balance this juvenile allegation with the often-reported lack of contact from the elders. I'm sure that - with maybe one or two exceptions - JWs have neither the time nor the energy to engage in stalking activity.

    I have no first hand experience with "stalking", but have plenty of experience dealing with elders.

    I can easily imagine the same elders who are "too busy" to make shepherding calls on old Sister Frail or Brother Drool in the nursing home would be only too eager to live out their "Starsky and Hutch" fantasies by staking out the apartment of 20-something Sister Nubile in hopes of catching a glimpse of some hanky-panky through the bedroom window. In the interests of "keeping the congregation clean" of course.

    Scott77 posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:25:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 54 of 3429
    Joined 4/3/2009

    "As I gained status in the congregation, I was being exposed to and trained in some of the undercover

    work of the local elders. It was exciting slinking around in the darkness, spying on members of the

    congregation who were suspected of wrongdoing. I also was given access to the congregation files,

    which revealed the inside information of all in the congregation. I was being used in the same kind

    of covert operations I had seen control the workers at headquarters."

    (Paul Blizard at http://www.geocities.com/paulblizard/test.html)
    villabolo posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:30:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 185 of 2770
    Joined 3/9/2009

    It's been almost 30 years since I've been out of the Witnesses but I live in a neighborhood full of them. One fine day I was having engine problem with a bit of smoke coming out. I was parked in the alley where one of the sisters was watching me. She turned her nose up at me in disgust with the type of look you would give someone who just defecated in public. Within a minute one of the brothers is running towards my car with a cell phone pointed at me. He was running from cover to cover as if to hide himself while taking pictures of my smoking car.

    No, that is not stalking, which we all know they do when they hide behind the bushes overnight in order to catch Sister/Brother so and so fornicating. But it's part of their police state mentality.

    F Lady Lee posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:34:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 13132 of 14228
    Joined 6/29/2001

    There have been enough stories here to show that it does happen.

    Good grief They were stalking Ray Franz to get the info they needed to disfellowship him! And they kept at it until they got what they wanted

    happpyexjw posted Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:48:00 GMT(4/17/2009)

    Post 72 of 186
    Joined 3/18/2009

    Steve2, is it really paranoia when people are actually followed and monitored? There have been too many credible reports of this type of activity to simply brush it off as "juvenile allegations." In fairness, this doesn't happen in all congregations, but it does happen. As for the law, remember this is the same group that has intimidated others into not reporting cases of child sexual abuse, so it is not much of a stretch to understand that many would not want to risk the ire of the JC by reporting these shenanigans to the police.

    WTWizard posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:13:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 7378 of 15034
    Joined 5/10/2007

    I wonder how often it is the hounders that are doing this, to find information to piece a judicial hearing. They are not officially told by the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger to do this, so they will not get in trouble. The hounders themselves are on their own on that matter--though they are supposed to do this to gather information about people, without being explicitly told to.

    Hopefully, I can make them waste a lot of time on me. They will not be getting fornication (Jehovah, that Almighty Lowlife Scumbag, has permanently fixed that issue for them). They will only be getting apostasy, having the sun-worship lights on, having a Ouija board, and possessing numerous works by apostates (including but not limited to Crisis of Conscience). Sure to make a far less exciting judicial committee, but hopefully it will waste their time and energy when they need to get up early the next day on their Waste of Paper Distribution Campaign.

    F mouthy posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:35:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 11698 of 15720
    Joined 11/22/2001

    Paul Blizard is an Ex-Bethel insider, kind of modern-day 'whistle TRUE!!!!

    Paul is a friend of mine I am pleased to say. He told us of the time when he & another
    fellow JW had to sit very late at night ,with binnoculus ,watching a sisters house
    for info on adultery, the Police came upon them... He decribes his reaction ( very funny)
    You may get his testimony on McGregors site... Paul is now a Pastor( I am sure you all know that now)
    They have adopted children. His stories of Bethel are so enlightning.

    Scott77 posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:00:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 58 of 3429
    Joined 4/3/2009

    mouthy,

    Wow, that is so interesting. Please, where is McGregors' site? Were they arrested? did the Police fill out a report? Were they charged? did a newspaper publish the story to shame them? How did the police get them? did the sister call them? I think there is much we can learn from this experiences.

    F mouthy posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 15:47:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 11705 of 15720
    Joined 11/22/2001

    I am not clever enough to post Mcgregors site.

    No the Police thought they were some important government men.
    But Google Paul Blizzard I am sure it will be on there ( I forget all the particulars
    Old age... He was on the "Shirley Show " with us,,,,with group I chaired

    M mkr32208 posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:45:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 3424 of 3980
    Joined 5/24/2004

    Just because your paranoid doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you!

    I ain't paranoid but every so often, I spin around real quick.--just in case
    Sometimes I have a gun in my hand when I spin around.--just in case
    I ain't paranoid, but sometimes I shoot when I spin around.--just in case

    F mouthy posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:21:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 11707 of 15720
    Joined 11/22/2001

    I just Googled Paul Blizzard it is really worth doing.

    M Finally-Free posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 18:47:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 7370 of 9757
    Joined 7/15/2005

    Shortly after I DA'd I left my JW wife. I'm pretty oblivious at the best of times, but my neighbours told me that my home was being watched and they provided me with the license numbers of the cars. I contacted a JW and said I knew about the stalking and that a police report had been filed. The surveillance stopped. I assume they were looking for evidence of adultery.

    W

    M Gordy posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 21:54:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 1086 of 1240
    Joined 7/5/2001

    I recall being told the story of a JW brother who was reported as staying overnight, at a womans house, which he was. He started noticing familiar cars parked across the road. He realised they were cars that belonged to a couple of the Elders. Then one morning as he was getting ready to go to work, he sawa figure sneaking around his van. He dashed out and round the van and straight into an Elder. Asked what he was doing the Elder gave some lame excuse and went back to a car were another two were sitting.

    That following Sunday the Elders said they wanted a word with him after the meeting. He went into the "room" three elders were there. They asked him had he been visiting a woman at such and such address, he said yes. Had he been staying overnight with this woman, he said yes. They said in that case they would have to form a Judicial Comittee, to question him about possible fornication taking place.

    The brother said if they had bothered to ask him then they would have learnt that "the woman" in question, was his fleshly sister.

    As a builder he was fitting a new kitchen for her as a surprise for her husband who was due home on leave from the navy.

    He was doing the work after he had finished his days work, and it was easier for him to stay overnight than go back home.

    He told them that if they have to go sneaking around and spying on people instead of asking them, then there is something wrong.

    With that he picked up his briefcase, tipped the bible, books magazines etc, on the table.

    He then said something along the lines of "You can have that lot back, because I'm not coming back again."

    Scott77 posted Sat, 18 Apr 2009 22:22:00 GMT(4/18/2009)

    Post 59 of 3429
    Joined 4/3/2009

    He told them that if they have to go sneaking around and spying on people instead of asking them, then there is something wrong.

    With that he picked up his briefcase, tipped the bible, books magazines etc, on the table.

    He then said something along the lines of "You can have that lot back, because I'm not coming back again."

    (Gordy)

    Very powerful revealation. This brings to a very partnent and important quetion to pounder. If all elders who were spying on people's lives apparently believed as do the governing body of JW, that they are lead by "Holy Spirit" as to their conduct including stalking, as we to believe that WTBS is truely being a 'spirit-directed organisation' as it always claim to be? I strongly beliee this is a serious food for thought. Please, think of people whose lives have suffered ireparable mental anguish, perpetual enslavement, broke-up families, death, rape,emotional permanent scars, etc,. What else can we say then?

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