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The Miracle of Prayer - Samuel Herd, Governing Body Member

    Kosonen posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:15:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 72 of 205
    Joined 5/26/2008

    I found his talk at http://www.jwforum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=1704

    Here is a part of his talk. Is he indicating that we should pray for GB so that Jehovah God would open their eyes?

    Here's a modern day example. Back in the 50's, some sisters found out that they were married to homosexuals and some even had children by these immoral men. When they found out, they were appalled and they wrote to headquarters. During that time, however, it was not understood that homosexuality was considered fornication. So the response to these sisters from headquarters was that if they divorce, they were not free to remarry. So these sisters were in somewhat a dilemma. They were not happy. They could not stand to even look at these men, but what could they do? Headquarters had spoken. Sad situation. However, these sisters kept praying to Jehovah and begged his help. Jehovah heard those prayers and answered them. He caused his organization to take in depth look a the word porneia, translated fornication and they found that, yes, homosexuality falls under that umbrella, that these men are just as sin-sick as if they would have been if they committed adultery and yes, our sisters could choose to divorce these men and remain free to remarry if they wanted to. It took time, it took a lot of time, but Jehovah answered these prayers.

    Albert Einstein posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:25:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 6 of 558
    Joined 3/9/2009

    Koso, I think it is a great idea - let us pray to God to open the eyes of our beloved brothers in the GB .... and let them ... for example ... sell the printing house to Mormons and to release all Wittnesses from slavery!

    Albert

    TheBiz posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:32:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 3 of 7
    Joined 3/17/2009

    What's "GB"?

    M sir82 posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:42:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 2679 of 8411
    Joined 5/17/2005

    Um, so why didn't God give them the right answer the first time? Why wait until some "poor sisters" had to suffer first?

    minimus posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:44:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 26856 of 35798
    Joined 7/3/2002

    Great Britain? How about Governing Body?

    minimus posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:47:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 26857 of 35798
    Joined 7/3/2002

    Suffering is a good thing.

    TheBiz posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:54:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

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    Joined 3/17/2009
    Great Britain? How about Governing Body?

    Governing Body makes sense. So yes, it does seem like he's implying people should obey and when it doesn't seem like it's right they should pray that the Governing Body comes to an understanding that fits their situation better.

    M Doubting Bro posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:56:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 641 of 1536
    Joined 2/22/2006

    Its this sort of "logic" that pisses me off to no end. Why on earth would a "God of truth" direct that his channel of communication on earth provide incorrect information leading to wrecked lives only to finally relent when enough people begged him to? And, why were these sisters questioning the GB? Weren't they sinning? What exactly is Herd's point?

    The mental gymnastics is takes to believe that the WTS is Gods channel given their history is exhausting.

    minimus posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:58:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 26858 of 35798
    Joined 7/3/2002

    If it was worded "the GB of GB', that would mean the Governing Body of Great Britain.

    M undercover posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:22:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 6259 of 13114
    Joined 9/25/2002
    ...the response to these sisters from headquarters was that if they divorce, they were not free to remarry. So these sisters were in somewhat a dilemma. They were not happy. They could not stand to even look at these men, but what could they do? Headquarters had spoken.

    Here's where we see that the attitude of "obey men" shows up much stronger in talks than they do publications.

    I always hated when they used the word "headquarters", meaning Bethel or the Governing Body. I remember one time when a Bethel elder was visiting our hall and a kiss-ass elder was leading him around showing him off to everyone. He introduced me to the Bethelite and said he was "visiting from headquarters". I couldn't help myself... I looked at both of them and and asked, "You mean he's visiting from heaven?" My question was not appreciated.

    F Mickey mouse posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:24:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 1119 of 4361
    Joined 12/11/2007

    Sounds like a plan. Perhaps all the mormons should pray and sit tight until their leadership see the light too? And the Catholics.....and the Scientologists.....

    ...flawed logic at it's worst.

    F Mrs. Fiorini posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:31:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 387 of 575
    Joined 5/27/2008

    I can't believe he said that God doesn't hear prayers for world peace! This religion disgusts me. Jehovah is a monster God to them who refuses even to hear requests for peace in a world of pain and suffering. I can never believe in their version of God again!

    M wobble posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 21:48:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 620 of 5745
    Joined 2/20/2008

    Here in GB (Great Britain) a GB is a God Botherer,somebody who prays a lot. Being a secular society we don't have a lot of time for such people,but we have more sympathy for them than looneys like Sam Herd and the rest of the other "GB"

    love

    Wobble

    F Gayle posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:08:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 707 of 4484
    Joined 11/17/2006

    Ironic, Herd speaking of that circumstance in the 50's re those women having husbands that were proven homosexuals. I don't think the ruling by the Governing Body of JWs re homosexuality of a married person being actually grounds for remarriage didn't change until 70s or later (can anyone verify). By that time for any answer of those women's prayer, they would have been very much older and chances of remarriage then become much less.

    M donny posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:36:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 279 of 1476
    Joined 5/4/2005

    This was an issue I brought up in my judicial hearing where they tried to talk me out of dissassociation. I had mentioned that one thing that irritated me to no end was that so many of the brothers and sisters confused Jehovah and the Society. One of the elders, Jared Hardie, commented that only a new one or one weak in the faith would make such a mistake.

    I then went on to discuss the change in the view the Society had on homosexual behavior. I mentioned how many sisters who were married to gay men before 1972 could not divorce and remarry without being disfellowshipped and unfortunatley many of them were kicked out for doing just that.

    Then in 1972 "brighter light" fell upon the governing body and the rule was changed so these sisters could divorce their gay husbands and remarry without any issue. I then asked "Why didn't the Society just say they had made a mistake and apologize to those sisters who had been disfellowshipped earlier and welcome them back into the fold?"

    Then elder #2, Stuart Vislosky, replied "So you think Jehovah should apologize to these women?"

    I then looked at Jared Hardie and elder #3, Roy McWhorter, and said pointing at Stuart "He just made my point! I asked why the Society didn't apologize to the sisters and he translated that into why should Jehovah apologize? In his mind, the Society and Jehovah are the same!"

    Jared then said the meeting was concluded and we went our separate ways.

    Don

    F Mrs. Fiorini posted Tue, 17 Mar 2009 23:54:00 GMT(3/17/2009)

    Post 391 of 575
    Joined 5/27/2008

    Wow, donny, what a great story. I hope that made them think.

    M drew sagan posted Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:08:00 GMT(3/18/2009)

    Post 3662 of 4140
    Joined 8/16/2005

    I agree with brother Herd.

    When ignorant men change, it's a miracle of God.

    VM44 posted Wed, 18 Mar 2009 00:21:00 GMT(3/18/2009)

    Post 4957 of 6574
    Joined 7/1/2001

    How much of this is Samuel Herd just making up?

    How does he know what Jehovah did and did not cause?

    Samuel Herd lives in a well developed fantasy world.

    M Billy the Ex-Bethelite posted Wed, 18 Mar 2009 01:21:00 GMT(3/18/2009)

    Post 1128 of 6936
    Joined 11/29/2007

    Spoken like the true "company man" that he is. The word "headquarters" doesn't appear in the Bible. "Governing Body" doesn't appear in the Bible, either. "Printing", "corporation", "spirit directed", and many more, don't appear in the Bible. But all of that human authoritarianism appear at Watchtower Incorporated.

    It is interesting that those "sisters in the 50s" were more clearly "spirit directed" than "headquarters" ever has been in the past, or ever will be in the future.

    B the X

    F jamiebowers posted Wed, 18 Mar 2009 02:18:00 GMT(3/18/2009)

    Post 1463 of 6345
    Joined 1/27/2007

    This talk is offensive on so many levels.. First, they didn't have the sense to know that homosexual husbands going outside of the marriage for sex was adultery. Second, they pushed these guys into marrying for cover in the first place. God, I hate this cult!

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