The New World

Earlier, I had asked about changes under the thread, "new truth". Your replies were interesting and informative, or should I say it was meat in due season and I found it upbuilding. I have another question: Is the new world view still the same. The old illustrations showed white people in a park like setting, mowed grass and lots of trees, with lions and lambs together. Later, the group pictures were multicultural which is an improvement. Do they show houses and will there be technology? Having a perfect body in perfect weather, could preclude houses, however, things like violins and pianos wouldn't fare to well. Also, houses are nice for hanging up art work. I like nature, but I also like art, music, technology etc. Anything new here?

Hey Larc. Just want to say I've enjoyed your comments/sarchasm since being here.

I don't think alot of change to the NW pics has happened since the multicultural thing.

I think about the last item that raised some eyebrows was a picture of a bulldozer or something in the Live Forever book (?). This led to the speculating that perhaps for a short while we'll make use of the old system's heavy machinery and diesel fuel (lol) to clean up the post Armageddon mess.

Of course, when one starts to think about such a physical world, you begin to realize how completely unfeasible it is to live as portrayed in the pictures.

Yeah, there's still the mowed lawns, with no lawn mowers ever in sight. There's still the modern style homes, that some how are built with no power tools or heavy equiment. I don't know who's running the sawmill or who has to go and mine the metal to make the nails and how it gets transported is beyond me.

People still don't have beards either. I figure we'll keep the Gillette factory open, but who's going to work there?? Plus it looks like we'll wear modern shoes as well, so I guess we might keep one or two of the Nike sweat shops open in China.

I've posted before that the whole physical Paradise thing is not feasible, or its not feasible to live the way we do or as portrayed in the pictures. Perhaps it might work if we just go back to a primitive state, but that is completely against the spirit of humanity.

Of course, I'm overlooking the obvious answer and solution to these dillemmas. "Wait on Jehovah".

Path

Path is right, just wait on Jehovah. Right now, just worry about being there so you can find out, kapiche?

Path,

I loved your comments. I know the folks back home don't believe in theories, but when you go from the general concept of paradise to filling in details either through words or pictures, you are engaged in theory building and like the demon theory, the paradise thery has a lot of holes in it. Now, regarding power tools, they could probably counter by saying that when you are going to live forever you can afford to take the time to hand saw wood all day. This is not my idea of paradise. I would prefer to have power tools, so I could get the job done quickly, and get back to petting the lions and lambs. (Roy, if your reading this, don't take it the wrong way. Petting animals is not my idea of foreplay.) As to the subject of waiting on Jehovah. Many years ago there was a song by Fanny Brice entitled "I've been waiting for your phone call for 18 years, maybe you don't love me anymore." Perhaps the JW's should add a new song to their song book. "We've been waiting for Jehovah for 125 years, maybe he doesn't love us any more."

DriveslikeJehu,

Regarding your pithy reply (Did I just use a bad word?) To quote the great philosopher from Mad comics, Alfred E. Neuman "What, me worry?" No point in worrying, I did some good things and I made mistakes. I think my batting average was pretty good, but, then I'm not the judge of that and the whole thing is out my hands. Frankly, I think God is more mercifull than his representatives. But, again, it's not up to me, so I don't worry about it. You should stop worrying too, it's a sin to worry and just another thing for you to worry about.

Isn't it strange how people look at pictures to see new light? lol

"People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"

Brothers and sisters, or as they say in southern Ohio, brothern and cistern,

Are you familiar with the old western song that goes like this:

Oh, give me a home
where the buffalo roam
and the deer and the antelope play
where seldom is heard
a discouraging word
and skys are not cloudy all day

Sounds like the new world doesn't it?
Well, I'll tell you what. You show me a home where the buffalo roam and I'll show you a messy house.

I must be off.

Sorry Larc,

I meant that you should focus on making sure you're going to be in the new world and living your life out in a manner that would allow you to be there. Then, and only then can you find out what it's really like and have your questions answered.

One point that I find difficult to deal with is the simple issue of space....as in room....as in where will all the people fit?

On Witnet at one point BigRay brought out that the estimated population after everyone is resurrected would be approximately 20 billion people. Now, I know I've read in the publications that it would work about to about an acre per person....which sounds like a lot....until you start to think about it.

Right now we live on a little over 7 acres. We have three horses. Minimum grazing area is 2 acres per horse. Since we have about three acres of woods and almost an acre taken up by house, garden, pool, etc., that leaves too little land for our horses to exist on grazing alone, so we have to feed grain and additional hay.

Now, pretty much every Witness dreams of having a horse of their own to be able to ride and enjoy Jehovah's creation. Okay, so you have a family of 4, with their allotted 4 acres. Mom and Dad have opted out of horse ownership, so you have 2 horses....each of which needs a minimum of 2 acres. Obviously, this takes up all the allotted land before you even consider a house, a barn, and a garden of sufficient size to supply the dietary needs of four people. Plus, there would be no room to ride anywhere without trampling through everyone else's food gardens.

Then you need to consider the needs of wild animals...most of which need very large territories in order to flourish.

After that, packing people in THAT close would play major havoc on groundwater supplies, which would be needed for wells to supply water.

I think the WT needs to revise their Paradise pictures just a little. Perhaps a couple of shots of ticky-tacky, crowded suburban developments might be more apropos.

WoW Redhorse,

That was a great post!

What about all of the newborn's ?

I thought that those that were brought back to life would no longer be sexual, but those that lived through all the hell would be able to procreate.

You have made some great points here.

m2u

Hey Red,

First of all, God can make the deserts blossom, remember? I believe geographically - thousands of miles can be reclaimed. And by irrigation, it's being done in Isreal now.

Second, God can make the oceans "deeper", thus making more land mass. And since he "kinda" made the mountains higher during the Flood, (that's what made the oceans "lower" back then), He can "kinda" change them to fit his purposes again.

Third, jw's all don't have to live on their own 4/5 acres. Some can live in communities - like the ones who aren't married. Then, when "the dead arise" - and put clothes on - they can live there too. Preferably in condos. Everybody knows that the WTBTS teaches that all the resurrected ones will "be like angels, not marrying". And even resurrected babies won't ever marry. A chance they might be unhappy forever single? No, God has promised to "wipe every tear from their eye."

And the ultimate jw speculation: The earth was his first experience in populating. Once it's brought to Paradise condition (for a proper showing of Almighty Right to Rule the Universe to the Angels)then God can populate the other planets with his followers from the earth - which might be well populated with the birthings from generations of children from the survivors of Armageddon - Jehovah's True Worshipers. And who - as a group - worships Jehovah God? Jehovah's Witnesses only.

Is it painfully obvious that I got bored in field service a lot? I'd start all these speculation conversations - and the other sisters would only go so far down this road with me. I never could get an answer as to whether the Ancients would have to wear underwear. Bras, etc. Jockey shorts. Some sisters looked at me in an odd sort of way. I assume the same looks that Red got.

waiting

Waiting,

"And the ultimate jw speculation: The earth was his first experience in populating. Once it's brought to Paradise condition (for a proper showing of Almighty Right to Rule the Universe to the Angels)then God can populate the other planets with his followers from the earth - which might be well populated with the birthings from generations of children from the survivors of Armageddon - Jehovah's True Worshipers. And who - as a group - worships Jehovah God? Jehovah's Witnesses only."

Did you see the exerpt in the 192 page book, grey, about populating other planets? Which book was it? Within the last seven to ten years.
TW

Wow, is that how that western song goes? Geez, learn something new everyday, eh?

"People in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones"

Waiting....but what about all the desert creatures that would then be forced into extinction when their habitat was blossoming? And what about the belief that individually man would "build houses and inhabit them" and "each man would sit under his own vine and fig tree"? Kind of rules out condos. Besides which, the WT has always taught that cities such as they were trying to establish at Babel were an abomination.

Deepening the oceans would play havoc on the natural currents and ecosystems that are now in existence.....and didn't the WT teach that Jehovah works within natural laws?

I always figured colonizing other planets would be a viable option....probably the only one.

Hey Red.....(sighing)

Any good JW will tell you that God can (and will) do anything He wishes. His ways are higher than ours. If He made the mountains and the valleys - He can rearrange them, can't He? Of course. Trust in Jehovah.

Only scorpions and stuff like that in the desert. God can move them to another planet - we need the space.

No no. Read the scripture very carefully. "Men" will be sitting under the figs and vines and build houses and inhabit them. Resurrected women will have the condos and swimming pools. Why not? We're not mentioned in this scripture - we can live where we want. Condos sound nice. Oceanside preferably.

cities - not condos. Oceanside preferably. Mountains during summer, don't you think?

God made those "natural laws" - He made 'em, He can break 'em.

I didn't say it was logical. Besides, I spent more time pondering the underwear dilemma - more interesting and thought provoking.

waiting

Edited by - waiting on 20 December 2000 23:35:49

so if god can wipe every tear from their eye and sadness and pain will be no more for the former things have passed away......(or something like that)
how come he didnt do it properly in the first place?
the ultimate power can take all these imperfect people and make them perfect and procreation wont ever occur to the ones that have been resurrected and of course none of the people who made it through armageddon would ever get the inkling to fancy one of them,
yet to start with there were two totally perfect people and he couldnt stop them scrumping the forbidden fruit.
just wondering
nelly

TW, the book you're thinking of is "Worldwide Security Under the Prince of Peace", printed in 1986.

On page 184, in the last chapter, it says :

In other writings, such as when they're discussing UFOs, they say that there could be the possibility of other planets inhabited by lifeforms, but we wouldn't know for sure.

It would be rather haughty for us to imagine that we were the only creatures Jehovah created to enjoy life. We know that he created the angels and other spirit forms, so why not other life forms on other planets, in other galaxies, other solar systems?

Waiting, I can see the logic of your arguments now. How foolish I was not to see it initially. You do realize, however, that in order to get your oceanside condo, you will have to clean up a heck of a lot of seaweed and dead fish when the ocean is deepened in order to make more land.

Only scorpions? What about Meerkats (damn, they're cute)? Where would THEY go? And those toads that live there? And the camels? And the desert rhinocerous (okay, so maybe this one doesn't exist...but it could). And.... Well, you get the picture. There are some REALLY cute little guys out there in the desert. They would all be homeless...or dead. Poor planning, if you ask me.

Read Z. Sitchin's books and you'll learn a whole new way to look at the universe, how we got here, how Adam and Eve were made, who the Nephilim were, what planet they come from, how they traveled, etc. Very interesting. I'm not saying I buy his theories completely, but they are based on fact.

TR

Hey Red,

Now that one took some thinking - no logic, however. If God can zap kazillions of dead men, women, & children before their carcasses literally stink up the entire earth - he can zap the seaweed & dead fish. And we've been quietly assured that we won't have to deal with those kazillions of dead men, women & children - the WTBTS just forgot to mention that we wouldn't have to dig trenches for the dead fish and seaweed. Probably jellyfish would be zapped also, don't you think?

Welllll, it would take a long time to make most/all of the deserts blossom again. By then - God will have revealed his solution to this seeming problem. Remember, no problem is too big or too small for his attention. Look to the ants for a lesson.....the birds in the sky.....how many hairs we have on our heads.

His ways are higher than our ways. If God can kill a kazillion people and still wipe every tear of pain and sorrow from the survivors' eyes, he can take care of these little things.

You just have to wait on Jehovah. Keep your faith. Go to meetings.

waiting

Remember, God loves you, and if you don't believe it, he's going to kill you at Armageddon. Religion is so comforting.

Hi Ho Silver Awayyyyyyy