Found this interesting talk on E-watchman's site. It was given by David Splane, a GB member.

The talk is really interesting as it gives a more focused look at the troubles the Society is facing as it trys to cope with education, peer pressure etc.

http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=454

Yesterday we had the zone overseer David Spane giving a special talk in Belgium. He has been touring around in Europe and had the last stop in Belgium before returning to Bethel.

This was a complete different talk than the one described by Candace.

We were really shocked by a lot of things from his talk.

I will provide a small summary of it.



He started with the event of David and Goliath. When David noticed Goliath he proposed to fight with Goliath. Saul gave him his armour (copper helmet and coat of mail), but David was unable to use this. So he choose 5 smooth stones and his sling and a secret weapon, Jehovah's help.

That way he was able to defeat Goliath with Jehovah's help and not with Saul's armour.



Now a parallel was made to our time. We also have to fight against some figurative giants. 4 giants were discussed.

1. Higher education

2. Peer pressure

3. Negative publicity

4. Ourselves



1.Higher education as giant

This was discussed for almost 30 mins.

The main point was, do we really need higher education?

He said, what would Saul say: Well you can go pioneering when you have finished your university. That way you will be able tosuppport your family when you need to stop pioneering and you have to find a job.



What would David say: With Jehovah's help I will be able to find a job when needed when I give Jehovah the first place, and go pioneering and not going to university.



Than he discussed the disadvantages of university. People always think you need a certificate to find a job. He said that the situation currently is that too many people have a degree and some people even have to pretend you don't have a degree to find a job.

If you have a degree eg computer sciences and you start working at Bethel in the kitchen, what advantage will you have with a degree in computers, you won't use the knowledge. And if you need to stop working at Bethel after 15 years of service, than your degree is worth nothing, because the technology has evoluated.

So basic point is you definitely don't need a degree, you're better without it.

Than he also gave some examples of brothers/sisters who worked at Bethel and had to leave Bethel because they were expecting kids. They easily found a job with the things they learned at the theocratic school.



2.Peer pressure as giant

This was directed to kids and parents with kids.

It can be difficult to be a JW and be at school. Some kids are afraid of telling they are JW, but it has advantages. He gave an example of a 12 y old girl who told she was JW at the teacher at start of school and she studied with the teacher and the teacher and some other people from school became JW's. So always good to inform people you are JW.

Than there was a part about being unbaptized publisher. This was directed at parents.

He said, if you have a kid of 12, 12 or 14 years and he/she is not a unbaptized publisher, how is your education? At that age they should be unbaptized publishers and if not, there is something wrong with your education.



Than he said, if you have a kid of 14, 15 or 16 years and the kid is not baptized yet, wat about your education?

At that age they should be baptized or thinking about it.

Imagine you have an 18 year old son not baptized. He cannot be reaching out for privileges in the congregation because he is not baptized. What if he's thinking of dating someone? Who will he be dating? A girl from the world? another unbaptized publisher? a baptized sister who is spiritual weak? Other options are not possible because a spiritual strong sister won't be interested in an unbaptized publisher.



What if you don't want to force your kids to do these things. Is that a good point? He gave an example of parents who have a son who is working at McDonalds. When at a certain day he doesn't want to go working, will you call the manager and tell him that your son doesn't feel like working today and other days and that he will come when he wants? No, you will get your son out of bed and tell him he has to go to work. You will force him to do that.

The same applies for our obligations as publisher. You don't have to give them the option not to go to meetings or preaching. They have to go. Than he gave an example of a family who did that and was successful in this with their son.



3. Negative publicity as giant

That was about bad news in the newspapers about JW's. He said some of the brothers or sisters read something about us in the papers and than call or write Bethel about it. They think it should be true because it is in the newspapers.

Well think about that, why are we being hated in the world. It is because Jehovah made sure there was enmity between the woman and Satan and her seed and his seed. So we should expect to be hated and have bad publicity.

Saul would say, well we can examine some of our beliefs or positions. Example of disfellowshipment, bloodtransfusions, go preaching, ... These examples were given with the dates when the organisation started with it. The point was, when we would remove a standpoint, we will have another that the world does not like. We can go back in history to remove points, but we won't be able to please the world, because Satan is the ruler and he will never like our organisation.



4. ourselves as giant

This was related to our self-image. We can be negative about ourselves and think we are not worthy for God. And this can be as a giant.

He gave an example about an alcoholist. When he drinks 1 glass, the second is easy there and than a 3rd, 4th, 5th... and after some time he is drunk and lies on the ground. Which glass was the wrong one? The first, because that started the cycle.

The same with our thoughts. When we start thinking negatively, a second thought can come, a 3rd, 4th and eventually we think we are not worth anything for God and we get into depression. The first thought was wrong. When we would start thinking negatively, we should stop it and think positive and pray for help.

Than a remark was made about pornography, which can be similar.



The conclusion of all was, we have several giants to fight against and we don't need to think as Saul but as David and make use of our secret weapon, Jehovah's help.

If you have a degree eg computer sciences and you start working at Bethel in the kitchen, what advantage will you have with a degree in computers, you won't use the knowledge. And if you need to stop working at Bethel after 15 years of service, than your degree is worth nothing, because the technology has evoluated.

So basic point is you definitely don't need a degree, you're better without it.

Someone needs a kick in the pills for a statement like that. Typical watchliar fear mongering.

Good point Stealth - why would anyone with a degree in computer science want to work in Bethel's kitchens?

McDonalds offers more job prospects than Bethel.

As for getting baptized at 14, 15 or 16, that's ridiculous. You can't even legally drink in the USA till you turn 21.

Then he has the audacity to tell publishers that they shouldn't make meeting attendance and service an option for their kids.

It sounds like something he'd say.

These guys are evil.

I believe that the org is evil - I mean, who sits down and prepares these talks? They must be losing a lot of young dubs.

In my congregation, two "young ones" are going to college and it's being hushed up, as if it's something to be ashamed of.

So even vocational school is forbidden?!  Many people have degrees in fields that get jobs in other fields based on proof that they can study, take in information, and make practical application of it.  I wonder what job you can get from your skills in the Bethel kitchen?

So depression is caused by negative thoughts about yourself...that's like saying if you had a more positive attitude your cancer or diabetes would disappear.

So the WTS has thought about rewriting their history and have done so.  There is a page online that shows the way the Studies in the Scriptures were adjusted as to prophetic statements.  It's like an old story, the Emperor's New Clothes.

ANY,

“But he has nothing on at all,” said a little child at last. “Good heavens! listen to the voice of an innocent child,” said the father, and one whispered to the other what the child had said. “But he has nothing on at all,” cried at last the whole people. That made a deep impression upon the emperor, for it seemed to him that they were right; but he thought to himself, “Now I must bear up to the end.” And the chamberlains walked with still greater dignity, as if they carried the train which did not exist.

The more I re-read this, the more 'watchtower catch-phrases' I see.

Man, if they were roaches, we would be in trouble here.

Thanks for the story Blondie, very appropriate.

The Society must know about how publishers feel about certain issues. I know a Bethelite who works as a secretary, which probably involves responding to letters and requests. Assuming a constant amount of mail is sent to Bethel HQ, how can they not know about the serious issues many dubs have with the religion?

Follow up post by original topic author:

The evil bastards will never give up their propaganda about higher education, true some people with degrees don't find work but most do and they enjoy on average much better wages than those without degrees. In addition higher education makes people more civilised and cultured.

As for the world hating them that is either paranoid or in some cases well deserved given their blood policy and shunning rules and their degrading and ungrateful view of all non JWs.

The Peter Principle is alive and well at that WTBTS.  Each new GB member seems to be crazier and crazier.  This is probalby a good thing.  Maybe all of the JWs that have been having doubts or no longer feel like they're in a very Christian religion will be able to see the madness for what it is more easily and walk away. 

That last point -- "OURSELVES as giants" -- is a self-fulfilling prophecy of the Watchtower.

If people have thoughts or feelings of unworthiness, exactly who planted such feelings there? How often are the rank and file told at meetings and assemblies that they should be doing more? How often is negative reinforcement used, as opposed to actually praise and encouragement of any efforts?

The WT Society created that last giant of self-flagellation by the rank and file. And now they're counselling them about that feeling they put into their followers?

Horrible stuff.  Telling people they are better off without an education.  Hey, not everyone gets assigned to Bethel to get those wonderful job skills. Forcing your kids to get baptized, if they aren't by the time they are 14-16 years old, you're a failure as a parent.  Everybody's against the organization, don't trust anyone.  Oh, but make sure to think positive, and if you aren't, it's you own fault that you are depressed.  Be happy, Armegeddon's coming very very soon to make everything all better!

Yep, they're taking good care of the flock. 

Splane has a penchant for verbal flatulence.  He is known to some as Bro. ex-splane, since he seems to know so much about everything (in his own mind)

This is one of the "glorious" ones Jesus has entrusted THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL UNIVERSE to.

Did I mention these guys are evil?

Why bother studying the Litterature - in just a few years it will be outdated toilet paper.

HB

I now see what purpose the Watchtower provides, it provides a living for men like Splane who couldn't function in the real world without the Organization!

--VM44

Splane has been taking this talk on tour for the last couple of years - I heard it (on tape) in 2005 , when he gave it in the USA. See an earlier review on JWD:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/106787/1.ashx/%22Extremely+helpful+in+a+spiritual+way%22

What I find interesting is that it has morphed from 3 "giants" to 4 with "negative publicity" as the fourth giant. Clearly the WTS are concerned at press reports & tv programs.

He does seem to be more specific than I can recall on children being UBPs & baptised. A little bit silly to give specific ages - for someone who has never had kids , he seems to be extremely knowledgeable about bringing them up "in the truth".