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Meditation, letting the demons in

    free2beme posted Sat, 06 Jan 2007 09:31:00 GMT(1/6/2007)

    Post 2258 of 4248
    Joined 5/30/2005

    I remember asking an elder once, "What do you think about meditation?" He responded that we should not relax and open our minds, as opening our minds can let demons in. I thought that seemed like a odd response, and looked it up in the Watchtower, and sure enough he gave the societies views on meditation. Yet, there was always the struggle of using the world meditation in other forms. Elders would speak from the platform and say, "We should meditate on God's word, and thoughts from the Faithful Slave, " to always be prefaced with what was proper and improper meditation. Such a scary word for most Witnesses, as they really felt it might let the demons in. When I left the Witnesses, I wanted to explore the world of meditation and see it's benefits for myself. I wanted to see if it truly let in negative spirits and thinking, or if it was even really a connection to the spirit world.

    My first stop in meditation, was through marital arts. As this is normally a common example of people who meditate. My instructor taught us some basic elements and soon I found books on the subject that taught even more. I found myself enjoying the quite time, the exploration of my thoughts and dreams. I studied deeply, the connection between brain wave activity and meditation, as it seemed interesting to unlocking the mind. Soon I even found a connection with meditation and the spirit world, whether it was a spirit world of beings or just a higher level of existence, is for others to decide. In any sense, I did and do feel a spirit world connection to meditation. At the same time, did I feel vulnerable to demons?

    Demons were never something real to me. Evil is something you need to be open to seeing with your eyes, listen for with your ears and feel with your heart. Evil is reality, the physical, the harm man does to man, and the control man does to man to there own downfall. Looking for something invisible like demons, just means you ignore the real demons in man that is front of your face. So to say demons might get in, is not real to me. Meditation on life, hopes and desires. That is making sure you clean the demons out, you clean the evil of man out and focus on the positive of your own being. Demons are just another word for fear and negative control, not a spirit of the mythical Satan. With that said, meditation is not the opening of doors to demons. Fear, faults information and control to ones own detriment, is.

    People will ask me at times, "How do you meditate?", "Is it all Buddhist like, and mystical?" Meditation has many forms, and some we do naturally and do not think of it. Most people see the Yoga master deep in meditation and think that is it. Yet for most people who practice it, it is often just a quite moment alone, a deep relaxation or even a moment of clarity before you fall in to deep sleep at the end of the day. Meditative states can become easier to achieve, with practice and can help in many ways. Perhaps you want to overcome depression, to become stronger as a person mentally, or you want to find your true desires and path in life. Mediation can help with this. Just don't fear demons, spirits and things your were told would harm you in this state. It will prevent you from achieving any positive outcomes.

    So meditation, that evil evil word that the Witnesses used and danced around so many times. It was fun to see what they truly thought it was, and journey to its reality along my exit and see its true self. I pass on to people, all the time, the value of meditation and hope to release some of the fears that Witnesses have. Pick up a book on it, or better yet, a CD or tape you can listen too that will talk you through meditation. Light a candle, burn some incense and have a relaxing moment of clarity. Don't worry about those demons, there still in the Kingdom hall control their followers. The world is a far more interesting place, when you realize you have not even come close to opening all the right doors yet.

    free2beme posted Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:23:00 GMT(1/6/2007)

    Post 2259 of 4248
    Joined 5/30/2005

    As an added note, try to find a place in your house that is free of sound and distraction. It helps to be relaxed and comfortable.

    M poppers posted Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:28:00 GMT(1/6/2007)

    Post 1043 of 4810
    Joined 3/27/2004

    It's not just the dubs that describe the "dangers" of meditation, the letting in of "demons" through its practice. Several people I work with, all "Christian" were wide-eyed with horror as I described meditation. "Don't you know that meditating will open you to demon possession?" they asked. I was dumbfounded.

    F zensim posted Sat, 06 Jan 2007 22:45:00 GMT(1/6/2007)

    Post 58 of 192
    Joined 8/4/2005

    Two of my family members, still JW's, now meditate because of me. Not that I went into the whole "demon possession" discussion. I just try and talk as freely as I can about what I do and have found to benefit me. In this way their minds are starting to broaden and gradually they start to explore a little bit further. Of course I think it is funny when I hear my own words coming back to me a year later when they "discover!" something that I told them about.

    I am fortunate though as I know they are interested in the same things as I am. They just still have fear of man ("Don't tell anyone we meditate .."). So it's funny, as much as they are sad that I am no longer jw, they are also happy for me to be the guinea pig on these things that they have an interest in. Once they see my head isn't spinning like a top and I am not spewing ectoplasm that is - ha ha.

    zagor posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 03:51:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 1456 of 2739
    Joined 6/10/2005
    I remember asking an elder once, "What do you think about meditation?" He responded that we should not relax and open our minds, as opening our minds can let demons in.

    Right, now I get it!

    Satanus posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:44:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 11317 of 21303
    Joined 8/31/2001
    Looking for something invisible like demons, just means you ignore the real demons in man that is front of your face.

    Yes, exactly. The shadow/negative/dark self that most of us have. It's not out there. Each jw has it within him/herself. By attempting to block it, it just spreads.

    S

    BabaYaga posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 05:52:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 562 of 4549
    Joined 8/30/2006

    Well, it's obvious, isn't it?

    We should, instead, be freakin' TERRIFIED of relaxation and of our own MINDS.

    We should CLOSE OURSELVES UP so as not to become overly fond of anyone or anything, (such as family members, who could at any moment in time disappoint us and fall from favor.) Closing oneself off from affection and attachment beforehand makes actions to a closely related disfellowshipped one much easier and pleasing to that crazed Old-testament hellion, Jehovah.

    And by all means, CLOSE OURSELVES to possibilities, CLOSE OURSELVES to investigation, and most importantly... CLOSE OURSELVES to ever, EVER saying we are sorry... about ANYTHING.

    Meditative Baba.

    Satanus posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 06:04:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 11318 of 21303
    Joined 8/31/2001

    Good point, baba. As a jw, i sure was. It was experiences in 2 churches that opened me to start letting out the pain. Later on, meditation took/is taking it a lot further.

    S

    M searching4truth posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 06:36:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 194 of 250
    Joined 8/2/2006

    I have been really wanting to experiment with meditation but don't know where to start

    Arthur posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 07:42:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 1184 of 1700
    Joined 2/9/2006

    The Watchtower Society's teachings on this matter is downright sillyness. If demonic influence was possible every time we allowed our conscious mind to go into relexed state; every JW would be getting attacked every time they took a nap.

    I think that the WTS, as well as some naive fundamentalists have confused meditation with some of the primitive practices of Eastern and tribal religions whereby people went into altered states and trances.

    There are many healthy mediation practices that have nothing to do with religious mysticism or the spirti realms. Even the medical community is coming on board and publishing their findings on the health and emotional benefits of meditation (which can simply involve sitting quietly with eyes closed).

    The WTS has really gone overboard in it's program of instilling a fear of demons into JWs. This has manifested itself through Witnesses being afraid to read "The DaVinci Code", a Deepak Chopra book, or to walk into a church.

    M Clam posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 11:22:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 1388 of 2533
    Joined 12/19/2005

    Yes I've seen the Society's magazine articles about the "dangers" of meditation and also in related yoga practices. Their theory of demon posession during altered states is quite an interesting one though. Like free2beme I also got into meditation with martial arts. The meditation consisted of deep relaxation, usually aided by concentrating on candle flames. Then a few years ago, without going into the reasons, I was drawn to spiritualism. At a development circle I was taught to open my chakras but with important emphasis on asking for protection. Since spiritualists are almost always going down the route of communication with spirits, all the ones I know take very seriously the threat of negative spirits and energies. Since in seances it's not unusual for mediums or trainee mediums to speak in trance, there has to be some element of "letting go". By this I mean giving permission to a non earthly entity to use their human faculties for communication. Protection consists of prayer and visualisation techniques, and is part and parcel of spiritualist meditation: well in my experience anyway. Maybe this is how the JWs look at meditation and why they're frightened of it? However meditation takes many forms and the benefits cannot be understated. There are lots of Cds which are very helpful but certain classical music can also be a great aid.

    F vitty posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:43:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 2371 of 2551
    Joined 5/29/2004

    I have been interested in meditation, so heres a couple of questions.

    Do you have to sit up or can you lie down?

    Has it got to be very quiet or do you listen to music?

    And what stops you from falling asleep?

    F bernadette posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:01:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 196 of 750
    Joined 10/23/2006

    I have found simply keeping aware of my breathing brings me into a state of meditation and deep relaxation.

    Than giving my attention to the present and calmly not getting sidetracked by the dramas my mind creates and wants to involve me in is one way to start.

    Attending to and absorbing nature also helps.

    bernadette

    Satanus posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:06:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 11319 of 21303
    Joined 8/31/2001

    vitty

    Do you have to sit up or can you lie down?

    Sitting up in a chair is the best. You could do it lying down, or walking, or even while you are driving. Doing it while driving can calm you, but it doesn't work nearly as well as the other two positions.

    Has it got to be very quiet or do you listen to music?

    Some people use quiet new age type music. I prefer quiet. I think really serious meditation doesn't rely on music, or anything.

    And what stops you from falling asleep?

    That is one reason to do it sitting up in a chair. Japanese zen buddhist moinks have someone w a stick keeping an eye on them. Someone falling asleep gets a thwack

    S

    Ps, for really serious meditation, i take one or two tokes of the herb. Practitioners recommend against it, because it is a short cut. If you try this, it would be better to learn it without, first, like learning to drive a standard 4 cylender before driving a v8 automatic turbo and nitrous oxide (car).

    F jinjam posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:08:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 29 of 139
    Joined 12/31/2006

    i do yoga, i find it really helps clear your mind,i'm not really into buddhism, but i have to say its calming, makes you feel good, get a cd on yoga or even a book, basically its good stretching and breathing execises,people always thinks doing yoga is wierd, try it for yourself.Its always better without music, try and find a quiet corner in your house!

    F Sirona posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:22:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 4013 of 4578
    Joined 10/10/2001

    Its DB74 posting on Sironas PC!

    The problem that medititation poses for the WTBTS is that it opens ones mind and provides a sense of clarity; lets be blunt clarity leads to thought; thought leads to questions, questions lead to answers (or lack of them). Its this the society wishes to avoid.

    No wonder they demonise medititation!

    DB74

    ithinkisee posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 13:34:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 1318 of 1426
    Joined 1/30/2005

    Meditation, yoga, martial arts are all things that strengthen the mind and body. The JWs can't have people with strong minds and secure in themselves alone. This is the "real" reason they ban that stuff.

    ::searching4truth said: "I have been really wanting to experiment with meditation but don't know where to start"

    Freedomloverr has a great book called "The Buddha's Way" (http://www.amazon.com/Buddhas-Way-H-Saddhatissa/dp/0807606359)that is a great intro to Buddhism that focuses on the non-religious aspects of it and on the main forms of Buddhist meditation. It's out of print now and the used ones are VERY expensive (i.e. $50-60). But it is written in regular english and is not cryptic by any means.

    I also am in the middle of an eight-week course called 8-minute meditation (http://www.amazon.com/Minute-Meditation-Quiet-Mind-Change/dp/0399529950) that has got stellar reviews from everyone who has tried it - secular business people to spiritual people. It is not cheesy like some "For Dummies" books but is instead very respectful of the practice of meditation. The author doesn't get into the Buddhism part as much so it was kinda helpful for me to read a little on the Buddhist stuff in the first book (The Buddha's Way) - I knew a little more of what the author of the 8-minute book was talking about when he merely touched on points relating to Buddhism. I'm a little anal-retentive that way though.

    Those would be the two books I would recommend. It's working for me anyways.

    -ithinkisee

    F Sirona posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:30:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 4015 of 4578
    Joined 10/10/2001

    Hmmm

    I agree that meditation can influence a person to think "outside of the box". However, I don't think that it, in itself, can induce open mindedness.

    I suspect that the Watchtower leaders have other motives for preventing meditation. One of these motives could be the desire to prevent "supernatural" experiences in the rank and file JW. Meditation when done correctly and with the right attitude can produce some lovely spiritual type experiences. These experiences will be contained within the framework of a person's existing belief system. Therefore, a JW who meditates could experience a vision similar to John's in revelations. He may see Jehovah on his throne in all his glory and be given an inspirational message. How would that affect the JW religion if its members suddenly went to the KHall with experiences like this?

    They would have a problem telling the individual that demons initiated the vision, considering that we're supposed to all accept the biblical visions as from God.

    Just an idea.

    Sirona

    Satanus posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 14:54:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 11320 of 21303
    Joined 8/31/2001

    "Pure" meditation brings a blank slate, free of beliefs, fears, expectations. It isn't even breath focussed. It may be what james thomas talks about. Regular meditation practice can get a person into that direction. In fact, it seems to me that the main goal of meditation should be to acheive the ability sluff off all things. Other kinds of meditation can be used to explore issues in ones subconscious, ones relations to others, etc. Those are called focussed meditations.

    S

    M diamondblue1974 posted Sun, 07 Jan 2007 16:03:00 GMT(1/7/2007)

    Post 2987 of 3243
    Joined 2/1/2005
    I agree that meditation can influence a person to think "outside of the box". However, I don't think that it, in itself, can induce open mindedness

    To some degree thinking outside the box requires an element of open mindedness however I was approaching meditation from a relaxation standpoint as opposed to the mystical. If their members relax and begin to think outside of the box, this is hardly going to be a desirable effect.

    I suspect that the Watchtower leaders have other motives for preventing meditation. One of these motives could be the desire to prevent "supernatural" experiences in the rank and file JW. Meditation when done correctly and with the right attitude can produce some lovely spiritual type experiences. These experiences will be contained within the framework of a person's existing belief system. Therefore, a JW who meditates could experience a vision similar to John's in revelations. He may see Jehovah on his throne in all his glory and be given an inspirational message. How would that affect the JW religion if its members suddenly went to the KHall with experiences like this?

    I hadnt thought of it this way before, given they have been preaching that God speaks only through his organisation, this would pose a great threat to their position.

    DB74

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