ALL SCRIPTURE 'INSPIRED' BY GOD......

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    F Mary posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:42:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    The above scripture in 1 Timothy (one we're all familiar with) is the scripture used by Witnesses, and I assume other religions, to 'prove' that the bible was "written" by God whereby He communicated all the passages to the men writing. This doesn't make alot of sense to me, because the word "inspire" can have alot of different meanings, as I've copied from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary below.

    While I definitely believe in God, I think that #5 is probably closer to the truth. If I write a book or a song and say I was inspired by Elvis, that doesn't mean that Elvis wrote it or even approved it-----it simply means that I wrote it with him in mind.

    With regards to the bible, I believe that the men who wrote it, most definitely wrote it with God in mind. So you could say that yes, "all scripture is inspired of God". But that doesn't mean that God wrote it Himself or even put His seal of approval on it..........your thoughts?

    Main Entry: in·spire
    Pronunciation: in-'spIr
    Function: verb
    Inflected Form(s): in·spired; in·spir·ing
    Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French inspirer, from Latin inspirare, from in- + spirare to breathe
    transitive senses
    1 a : to influence, move, or guide by divine or supernatural inspiration b : to exert an animating, enlivening, or exalting influence on <was particularly inspired by the Romanticists> c : to spur on : IMPEL, MOTIVATE <threats don't necessarily inspire people to work> d : AFFECT <seeing the old room again inspired him with nostalgia>
    2 a archaic : to breathe or blow into or upon b archaic : to infuse (as life) by breathing
    3 a : to communicate to an agent supernaturally b : to draw forth or bring out <thoughts inspired by a visit to the cathedral>
    4 : INHALE 1
    5 a : BRING ABOUT, OCCASION <the book was inspired by his travels in the Far East> b : INCITE
    6 : to spread (rumor) by indirect means or through the agency of another
    intransitive senses : INHALE
    - in·spir·er noun

    F Crumpet posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 13:49:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    F*** ME! Mary! You've just made a brilliant point! Thank You - this is one I will definitely bring up if I ever ever ever get lucky enough to speak to my family again.

    One day I am going to go through the bible and read it again like an un-brainwashed person who understands the English language and prove to myself verse by verse why the majority of it is not the way JWs presented so that it could support their own twisted logic.

    And when I do I promise to share nay of my little gems here.

    Thanks again Mary - you havev made me see some light today and for that I am very grateful.

    M vomit posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:07:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Joined 11/26/2005

    Picasso inspired me to make a huge toilet snake this morning.

    I wonder if it was Picassos design or mine.

    F Legolas posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:08:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Great point Mary!

    You inspired me to post!

    M gumby posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:45:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    F*** ME! Mary!

    No........me first!!!! ( I couldn't resist)

    Mary, this point was what got me to thinking about the bible here on JWD. Years ago, a poster ( don't remember who) said that god NEVER gave a command for a N.T. to be written. I'd never thought of that before so I checked out some stuff. Never did I find god to tell man to record his sons life or the time around it. That made me check into the bible canon and who wrote it/compiled it. The rest is history and now you have an apostate Gumby bastard on your hand

    Gumby

    F Mary posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 14:50:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Just to clarify: All my postings are inspired of Gumbastard cause he needs me for teaching, for reproving him, and fer setting things straight.

    F Crumpet posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:06:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    get yer hands off me gumbapostate!

    Actually this whole scripture and my blinkered understanding of it as inculcated from birth is a prime example of how the JWs do not use the scripture for setting things straight. Otherwise I woudl have been able to question this mis interpretation sooner. I understand the word inspire in any other context and yet when I read that scripture I can't see if for waht it really means until Mary points it out to me! I hope my brain gets better the more I leave that dratted cult behind and that one day i can think half as well Mary.

    F Mary posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:30:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Gumbers said: Never did I find god to tell man to record his sons life or the time around it. That made me check into the bible canon and who wrote it/compiled it.

    What really got me wondering about the whole God-Approved-Everything-In-The-Bible, was the fact that it was the Catholic Church who decided what writings would make it as part of the bible and which ones wouldn't. Apparently, the book of Revelation came really, really close to NOT being included, because it was considered very 'controversial' at the time (and still is). There were many other writings that never made it as part of the bible. Does that mean they weren't 'inspired'? Why did Jehovah "allow" those rotten Catholics---the Mother of Harlots (according to Dub thinking), to be the decision makers regarding His book to mankind? Would The WTS let the Pope and his Cardinals approve their writings? Fat chance! So why would Jehovah allow His "arch-enemy", False Religion, to speak for Him?

    I was stunned when I found this little bit of info out. For obvious reasons, the canonization of the bible isn't discussed in too much detail at the Hall----it might get others thinking too.

    Crumpet said: I understand the word inspire in any other context and yet when I read that scripture I can't see if for waht it really means until Mary points it out to me! I hope my brain gets better the more I leave that dratted cult behind and that one day i can think half as well Mary.

    Aw, thanks hon! I'm no Einstein, but I always try to think logically. Actually, what got me thinking about this was one day I heard an old song on the radio, "You Light Up My Life" by Debbie Boone. After the song was off, the DJ made the comment that Debbie Boone said it was 'inspired of God'. The light went off in my head suddenly and I thought of the scripture in 1 Timothy and I thought "geeze, this is the exact same thing." She wrote the song with God in mind. It doesn't mean that God wrote the song. Same comparison.

    Should I be running the Watchtower or what??!!!

    M daystar posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:43:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    I sidestep the entire controversy since I don't think a book can refer to itself when claiming authority. You've heard this argument before, I'm sure.

    I think I'm going to write a series of books and claim they are holy scripture "just because I say so".

    M gumby posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:44:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Why did Jehovah "allow" those rotten Catholics---the Mother of Harlots (according to Dub thinking), to be the decision makers regarding His book to mankind?

    *still thinkin of Mary setting things straight dammit*

    Mary....another good point you make! I wondered this same thing when I explored my faith in the bible.

    Why didn't Jehovah give the job (forming the bible) to his Faithfull and Discreet Slave Class since Jesus entrusted ALL his belongings to THEM?

    They claim they have been here since Pentecost.......many years before the bible had begun to be written, yet Jehovah gives the job of writing his word to mankind to a wayward spiritual slutwhore?

    Gumby* who plans on making a thread on that subject ( in bold type) so don't still my idea* I got dibbs on it.

    F unique1 posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:48:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Never thought of it that way before. It is surely a good point.

    F Mary posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 15:55:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Gumby* who plans on making a thread on that subject ( in bold type);so don't still my idea* I got dibbs on it.

    Jes make sure you say it was inspired by Mary.

    M gumby posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:14:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Jes make sure you say it was inspired by Mary.

    Done!

    Gumby

    F Jankyn posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 16:41:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Mary, you're right on the money.

    I remember how outraged I was when I found out that it was a Catholic Church convocation that decided what would be in the Bible and what would be left out. And when I found out how close Revelation came to being excluded--well, knock me over with a feather!

    That's why so many JWs are "self-educated" scriptural authorities (meaning they use only WT sources, which never look at the context/history of religion, and lexicons, which don't fully provide the flavor of a language). If they actually learned about this stuff, their little heads would explode.

    And frankly, I think the whole world would be a lot better off if they'd just left Revelation out of it!

    Jankyn

    proplog2 posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:39:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    There are those on this forum that know more about greek etc. but I remember doing some research and there are some who believe that scripture can be translated:

    "All scripture (THAT) is inspired is beneficial..."

    M IT Support posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:13:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Joined 10/13/2003

    Mary,

    In 2 Tim 3:16, isn't the Greek for 'inspired' theopneustos, literally 'god breathed'? It appears the writer was intending to convey the idea that the Scriptures were 'influenced or guided by divine or supernatural inspiration' (the first of your definitions).

    Of course, that doesn't mean the Scriptures really were inspired by god, merely that the writer claimed they were! Also, when he wrote of "All Scripture," he would be referring to what we now call the Old Testament ('Hebrew Scriptures' in Watchtower-speak!).

    So, is there any evidence the Old Testament was inspired by god? Not if you believe the evidence in "Who Wrote the Bible?" by Richard E. Friedman, which clearly illustrates from the Old Testament where original texts were 'cut and pasted' to suit the, usually political, aims of the original authors.

    No divine inspiration there, then, and obviously none in the book of 2 Timothy!

    M sir82 posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:22:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Joined 5/17/2005
    Why didn't Jehovah give the job (forming the bible) to his Faithfull and Discreet Slave Class since Jesus entrusted ALL his belongings to THEM?

    He did, didn't he?

    Hence, the "New World Translation", complete with hundreds of "corrections" to the errors the original writers included.

    E.g., inserting "Jehovah" into the NT text, "thru Christ all [other] things were created...", etc. etc.

    F Mary posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:26:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    In 2 Tim 3:16, isn't the Greek for 'inspired' theopneustos, literally 'god breathed'? It appears the writer was intending to convey the idea that the Scriptures were 'influenced or guided by divine or supernatural inspiration' (the first of your definitions).

    IT, I believe you're right. And that's my point I guess. I think this scripture in 2 Timothy is correct in the fact that the writers most likely did have God in mind and they certainly were "influenced" by their religious beliefs, but that doesn't mean that God somehow translated into the minds of men what he wanted them to write down.

    In the Old Testament, Jehovah is quite often depicted as being a murderous, insanely jealous God who strikes someone dead if he happens to be in a bad mood that day. Who was that guy that God (supposedly) killed because he inadvertently touched the Ark of the Covenant? Yet He lets King David live even though he was guilty of conspiracy, murder, adultery and tampering with evidence?

    I think much of what's written in the bible probably did happen, but it happened from man's point of view. That guy who died touching the Ark of the Covenant? Maybe he tried to prevent it from falling and maybe the Ark fell on him in the process and killed him. From an Israelite point of view, they probably would have thought "God killed him for touching the Ark."

    How does Jehovah go from being a vengeful, warrior in the OT, to being a far more benevolant God in the NT?

    M tetrapod.sapien posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:51:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    good point mary. liked that.

    for me, there is a difference between "inspired by" and "inspired of". not sure what the greek would actually translate to.

    cheers,

    ts

    Leolaia posted Fri, 27 Jan 2006 20:03:00 GMT(1/27/2006)

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    Joined 9/1/2002

    The Nestorian canon to this day still leaves out the general epistles (i.e. James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, Jude, etc.). Other canons (for the Slavonic churches, the Armenian churches, the Ethiopic churches) accept books not found in the Catholic canon, such as 1 Enoch, Jubilees, 4 Ezra, etc.

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