2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and then what?

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    truthseeker posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:08:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 597 of 2841
    Joined 3/1/2003

    In just a few weeks, this year will end and a new one begins. Nothing special, just 2006.

    But when you analyse the JW doctrine, it is another nail in their already 91 nail studded coffin.

    The Watchtower has for decades taught that Jesus' presence and rulership began in 1914. Since changing the Generation of 1914 doctrine, a whole decade has passed, with little in the way of anything new.

    A couple of years ago, a poster here said that at a District convention in Britain, Peter Ellis commented that, "there is no new light on 1914."

    One has to ask oneself, why would Jesus wait over a century to bring about the Messianic Kingdom? What would be the purpose?

    I mean, you have a king, but no active rulership - you have subjects of that Kingdom, but no manifestation of the promised New Order.

    Recently, the Watchtower abandoned its decades old doctrine that the calling of the anointed ended in 1935, by adding two NEW members of the Governing Body - men in their fifties who weren't even born before 1935. In the United in Worship of the Only True God, page 83, there is a question for meditation that reads: "The gathering of the final members of what group was given prompt attention after Christ was enthroned?" The supporting scriptures were Matthew 24:31 and Revelation 7:1-4. Now, in the Worship the Only True God, page 98, the question for meditation reads: "The gathering of the remaining members of what group is being given attention since Christ was enthroned?" The supporting scriptures are Revelation 14:1-3. Compare the two questions and you will see the revised thinking that the gathering work of the anointed has not been completed.

    How quickly ten years has gone by since then. There are only 9 more years till 2014, at which time the "Kingdom" will be 100 years old - a Kingdom which has not delivered.
    What will the Watchtower be like in 2014?
    Probably more streamlined (and hardlined) than it is now. Perhaps the WT will be a monthly edition, with 4 study articles in it. Membership will continue to stagnate and baptisms will for the most part consist of children of Jehovah's Witnesses.
    The youth exodus will continue, perhaps more so, as university and college are seen as "the devil."
    Expect more talks at meetings, assemblies and conventions, glorifying the "faithful and discreet slave" - only those who have the "mark" will be in good standing.
    Expect more dumbing down (could it really be any worse?) of WT articles and bible-based publications. More demands for cash and material resources.
    As the group shrinks in number, it's paranoia will increase as the self-perpetutating machine called The Watchtower struggles to keep spinning.
    2014, if it comes and goes will be more embarassing for the Society than 1975 ever was.

    M joelbear posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:16:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 3476 of 3435
    Joined 2/21/2001

    the society won't be much different than it is today. it will have grown some. it will continue to attract a certain small segment of society. i agree most of the kids will leave.

    truthseeker posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:19:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 598 of 2841
    Joined 3/1/2003

    Right on JoelBear, although I really think that if the WT make 2% increase this year, it will be amazing.

    Last week, an elder commented at the WT that, "at the district convention this year, the District Overseer said that the reason they had the drama on Timothy, and the dangers of his going on to further his education, was that parents and children today have the wrong views on full-time service and higher education. They think there is more advantage and benefit to getting a college degree than full-time service, such as pioneering or Bethel service."

    Young people do not enjoy the "prospect" of knocking on doors till 95. I mean, there are no retirement benefits to this work. In fact, you can never retire from this work.

    There are two students in my hall, one just started at university and one in their last year of high school - what are they to think when they hear this crap? Both are very intelligent and talented.

    M sir82 posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:23:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 132 of 9196
    Joined 5/17/2005

    As I have posted earlier, 2014 is a looming crisis. How can JWs, with a straight face, preach a message of "when Jesus talked about the last days, he really meant the last centuries".

    Perhaps it is just my perception, in my little corner of the JW universe, but it seems to me that more and more persons are just kind of ignoring the WT hard-line. Constant drum-beatings of "do more, do more, do more" are not having any effect.

    At a recent "pioneer day" in our congregation, elaborate plans were made for all sorts of witnessing work all day on Saturday, morning and afternoon. 56 people showed up for the morning, all 56 came back or the free lunch at the Kingdom hall, but all of 6 people bothered to go out in the afternoon. A generation ago, there would have been dozens sticking around for afternoon service.

    I have to believe that at some point, a critical mass will be reached. D-Fings will continue to be announced, "do more" will continue to be beaten down, "we the governing body sure are glorious" articles will be written, but at some point, people will just start ignoring it all, talking to whoever they want, spending Saturday mornings at home, parroting WT answers but not applying the lessons, etc. When a big enough number finally does so, the WT will be forced to collapse or greatly mainstream itself.

    truthseeker posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:28:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 599 of 2841
    Joined 3/1/2003

    Sir82,

    Perhaps it is just my perception, in my little corner of the JW universe, but it seems to me that more and more persons are just kind of ignoring the WT hard-line. Constant drum-beatings of "do more, do more, do more" are not having any effect.

    it's already happening - consider the whole THEME of this years DC, "Godly Obedience." Every talk ranted and raved about the WTS, the FDS and our submissiveness to it.

    It's become a non-stop record.

    Friends in my hall are not at all concerned about the big "A", rather they are building homes and having occupancy, getting a college education, buying a new car or playing every video game known to man.

    These are not persons who are serious about matters of doctrine.

    Field service has become to them, little more that a part time job, something you just have to do on saturday morning.

    I wonder if people really believe the message that they are commissioned to give to others.

    truthseeker posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:37:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 600 of 2841
    Joined 3/1/2003

    I think also, because the WT loves routine, and creates routine, routine is what most witnesses ever see when they hear about the Kingdom.

    Promised new world - Just routine.

    Jesus ruling in heaven? - Just routine.

    Urgency of the times? - A routine urgency.

    Armaggedon near? - Same routine.

    Make full-time service your career? Another routine for high-school leavers.

    Make regualar pioneering, Bethel, Gilead service your goal - routine.

    The WT lacks the creativity and flair to do anything NEW - hence anything it does is just routine.

    Witnesses, once they get baptized are used to the year-to-year routine of Watchtower life.

    3 day conventions - drama on Sunday mornings, deficit announcement on Sunday afternoon

    2 day ass-emblies.

    1 SAD (Special Assembly Day)

    Twice a year - CO's visit, meetings change (usually on an evening when your favorite show is airing)

    Turn in your reports brothers, it's the end of the month

    April & October - Offer the WT and Awake! magazines

    March, April, May - Memorial Season - aux pioneers & Memorial

    August - end of service year

    September - New field sevice year, KM talk - "How did we do last year"

    October - since October has 5 full weekends, it would be an excellent month to pioneer

    October KM - The elders are reminded to follow through with the instructions in the 1991 WT on disfellowshipped ones.

    November - order the new calendar, daystext and yearbook - KM talk - "Giving Generously"

    Dec KM - Elders are reminded to audit the congregation accounts

    Now, repeat this for 5, 10 or 15 years - the JW soon learns there "is nothing new under the sun."

    It is the WT that creates the boredom associated with "going through the motions".

    M Gerard posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:13:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 1513 of 2687
    Joined 8/11/2002

    They are already starting to squirm their way out of it by changing the definition of "this generation". At first they stated it was "a human's lifespan, that is, 70 - 80 years."

    But since 1995 the WT asks to stop "speculating about how many years or days make up a generation.

    Now their old men are all but gone, their current new bullshit definition is:

    "this generation" apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christ's presence but fail to mend their ways.

    And then what, you ask? Just like a snake, the WT sheds its skin when needed. It has been doing it for one century and this cult will keep on transforming itself and will yeld power on your life and homes only until people cease to give it to them.

    http://quotes.watchtower.ca/generation.htm

    M Cygnus posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:29:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 1856 of 1871
    Joined 3/27/2001

    Thanks for showing that revised question, truthseeker. Nice catch.

    Yes, with the internet and whispers from here and there that a century old standstill reign of an invisible man "up there" is kinda silly, the WT will I believe start reverting back to a form of "character development"... sort of maybe a mix of $cientology and Russellism. They'll still be as hungry as ever for money, and they'll be needing it from more and more less affluent people. These newer people will need money to contribute so they are going to hold down full-time jobs and try to satisfy the yoke that JWs since the '40s have had pressed on them. Although we have already seen some lightening of it. Public talks are practically written for elders now... pioneering is now 840 hours a year, not 1000. They'll continue to grudgingly give a little to take more. And while we as freethinkers got over it, there will always be those who need "God." IDers are the big story now. And American protestantism teaches we've been in the "last days" and awaiting the return of the christ for nearly 2000 years!

    Nathan Natas posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:42:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 4585 of 9588
    Joined 4/25/2001

    "Big fleas have little fleas,
    Upon their backs to bite them.
    And little fleas have lesser fleas,
    and so ad infinitum. "
    -- Robert W. Hegner

    So we find the big Jehovah sock puppet has a little King Jesus sock puppet in his pocket, and the little King Jesus sock puppet has 144,000 teensy-tiny sock puppets in his pocket.

    M yaddayadda posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 22:58:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 22 of 1035
    Joined 10/9/2005

    I think in the few years leading directly up to 2014 the JW's may get a small surge in growth, similar to the 2000 phenomena. It's human nature to pick a date in the future that looks like it might have some significance, even if there is absolutely no foundation to it. But if the big A doesn't come in 2014 I reckon there will definitely be a not insignificant dropping off in growth as more and more JW's start scratching their head wondering why on earth Jesus has been present for 100 years but done nadda towards the planet. It will be a bit like what happened after 1975 but probably less so. More will start to get suspicious, as they did when 1994 rolled around and the end hadn't come before the 'generation' of 1914 had died off. Because of the negative growth after 1914 The Society will then probably bring into play their already hinted at '120 years as in the days of Noah' application to 1914. So overall I don't see many changes in the next 10 years. The Society are only interested in the numbers game, ie, growth growth and more growth, numerically and financially. They never do anything until the numbers start going into the red.

    VM44 posted Wed, 02 Nov 2005 23:01:00 GMT(11/2/2005)

    Post 1247 of 6619
    Joined 7/1/2001

    What will be very interesting is what will be the study articles in the October 2014 issues of The Watchtower. --VM44

    M Gerard posted Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:10:00 GMT(11/3/2005)

    Post 1515 of 2687
    Joined 8/11/2002

    I just took a look at the WT's web site and amazingly, they are now stiking to the original definition of generation:

    How long a time period would these last days prove to be? Jesus said regarding the era that would experience the "beginning of pangs of distress" from 1914 onward: "This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." ( Matthew 24:8 , 34-36 ) Thus, all the features of the last days must take place within the lifetime of one generation, the generation of 1914. So some people who were alive in 1914 will still be alive when this system comes to its end. That generation of people is now very advanced in years, indicating that there is not much time left before God brings this present system of things to an end. http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/article_07.htm

    Talk abouty painting themselves in the corner! Indeed, 2014 will prove to be an interesting year for this ever-changing cult with regards of re-writing their history and prophesies.

    Kaput posted Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:49:00 GMT(11/3/2005)

    Post 86 of 872
    Joined 9/29/2004

    Gerard:

    Notice the words at the bottom of the article...Published in 1993. Ya gotta read the fine print. Why would they still post the article? As a hook. While they're reelin' you in, they start tellin' you about the "new light" on the 1914 generation.

    M tetrapod.sapien posted Thu, 03 Nov 2005 00:54:00 GMT(11/3/2005)

    Post 2995 of 4984
    Joined 3/16/2005

    according to my calculations, after 2014 will come 2015.

    and after 2015, ...just a sec... (carries the 1...) ... um .... yes, will come 2016.

    okaydokee,

    i hope this helps,

    TS

    M Jeffro posted Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:52:00 GMT(4/27/2008)

    Post 1678 of 4495
    Joined 5/21/2005

    truthseeker (in 2005):

    Probably more streamlined (and hardlined) than it is now. Perhaps the WT will be a monthly edition, with 4 study articles in it. Membership will continue to stagnate and baptisms will for the most part consist of children of Jehovah's Witnesses.
    VM44 posted Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:18:00 GMT(4/27/2008)

    Post 4072 of 6619
    Joined 7/1/2001

    What will the Watchtower be like in 2014?

    Probably more streamlined (and hardlined) than it is now. Perhaps the WT will be a monthly edition, with 4 study articles in it. Membership will continue to stagnate and baptisms will for the most part consist of children of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    The above is coming to pass!

    I am looking forward to the special 2014 anniversary edition of the Watchtower!

    Fisherman posted Sun, 27 Apr 2008 06:40:00 GMT(4/27/2008)

    Post 399 of 657
    Joined 2/9/2004

    THEN the gt is closer than EVER!!!!!!!!!! hence, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and so on until GOD decides. So it may be 3000, 4000 or 5000 AD.......Who knows?

    but look at ancient history: 1874, 1875....1900...1914...1922...1935...1944....1975...1985...1995...2000,...2008

    3 CENTURIES OF THE TIME OF THE END 1800s 1900s 2000s.

    The gt is going to catch everyone from behind.

    People always hang on to any hope of hope and dont let go.

    Morgana posted Sun, 27 Apr 2008 09:54:00 GMT(4/27/2008)

    Post 5 of 46
    Joined 4/15/2008

    If you have carefully followed the subtle developments in WT theology up to and including the latest "generation" change, you may notice some emphasis directed toward 2034.

    This is only one fairly clear example of several (from Watchtower 2003 12/15. p. 15-16):

    Warned

    of "Things Not Yet Beheld"

    6

    In Noah’s day, Jehovah declared: "My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:3) The issuance of this divine decree in 2490 B.C.E. marked the beginning of the end for that ungodly world. Just think what that meant for those then living! Only 120 years more and Jehovah would bring "the deluge of waters upon the earth to bring to ruin all flesh in which the force of life is active from under the heavens."—Genesis 6:17.

    7

    Noah received the warning of the upcoming catastrophe decades in advance, and he wisely used the time to prepare for survival. "After being given divine warning of things not yet beheld," says the apostle Paul, "[Noah] showed godly fear and constructed an ark for the saving of his household." (Hebrews 11:7) What about us? Some 90 years have passed since the last days of this system of things began in 1914. We are certainly in "the time of the end." (Daniel 12:4) How should we respond to warnings we have been given? "He that does the will of God remains forever," states the Bible. (1 John 2:17) Now is therefore the time to do Jehovah’s will with a keen sense of urgency.

    8

    In modern times, sincere students of the Bible have learned from the inspired Scriptures that this system is doomed to destruction. Do we believe this? Notice what Jesus Christ clearly stated: "There will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again." (Matthew 24:21) Jesus also said that he would come as God’s appointed Judge and would separate people as a shepherd separates sheep from goats. Those found unworthy would "depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life."—Matthew 25:31-33, 46.

    9

    Jehovah has kept these warnings in front of his people by means of timely reminders through the spiritual food provided by "the faithful and discreet slave." (Matthew 24:45-47) Moreover, every nation, tribe, tongue, and people are called upon to "fear God and give him glory, because the hour of the judgment by him has arrived." (Revelation 14:6, 7) An integral part of the Kingdom message preached earth wide by Jehovah’s Witnesses is the warning that God’s Kingdom will soon remove human rulership. (Daniel 2:44) This warning is not to be taken lightly. Almighty God always keeps his word. (Isaiah 55:10, 11) He did in Noah’s day, and he will in our day.—2 Peter 3:3-7.

    This whole string of argumentation over the last few years, and now the renewed strong emphasis on "[t]he fact [sic!] ... [of] an extended period of time" and "time of Noah" in last week's study article, seems to build up to some "new light" - the "FDS" may finally have become aware of the looming desaster (i.e., for them and their whole evil "system of thought") and are now grsasping for a last theological straw... After all, 2034 is not that far away, sub specie eternitatis.

    VM44 posted Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:03:00 GMT(4/27/2008)

    Post 4073 of 6619
    Joined 7/1/2001

    And when 2034 comes and goes? What then?

    F chikikie posted Sun, 27 Apr 2008 17:10:00 GMT(4/27/2008)

    Post 172 of 180
    Joined 3/11/2008

    im gonna be far too old to even care! im gonna be like nearly 60 and living in spain in retirement lol

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