Am I a Return Visit? Suggestions needed

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    Flat_Accent posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 10:38:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 239 of 440
    Joined 11/28/2011

    So there I was enjoying Saturday Kitchen, when I hear a rattle on the door. I open it and who should I see but the same JW from last time, and she brought a friend with her.

    In her hand was the Memorial invitation, and she asked if I would come. I said no. My words obviously didn't travel far, because she asked me again 2 minutes later. I had already explained to her last time that I had been a Witness for 19 years and both my parents still attend meetings. She then asked if she could leave the leaflet with me .

    Something from last time did stick, however. Upon my refusal to take her invite she asked me again about Evolution. We didn't go into much detail but she decided she would send some guy called 'Steve' over to talk with me. "He believed in Evolution too". I assume by 'believe' she means, 'thought it was right but never looked into it until he read our BS orange brochure'.

    So now I'm expecting another knock next week, and I'm sure this sister will be putting down an extra RV on her report this month.

    Do I answer the door?

    If so, what should I ask this mysterious Steve character?

    Your thoughts are much appreciated.

    still thinking posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 10:56:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 2744 of 7434
    Joined 3/11/2011
    "He believed in Evolution too".

    I'd take that as ...he used to until he learned the truth...so he can set you straight about how wrong you are.

    Yeah...answer the door...and if you're in the mood for discussing evolution, invite him in for a chat...but if not...thank him for coming but that you're not even remotely interested in listening to the WTS dogma, you prefer facts and reality.

    ziddina posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 10:56:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 8711 of 10377
    Joined 4/8/2009

    Hmmm.....

    Well, it depends on what you feel most comfortable with - what you are most knowledgable in.

    If you're one of those lucky few who have familiarized themselves with the intricacies of genetic material, genomes, how DNA and especially "junk" DNA demonstrates our evolutionary pathways, then I'd go with that - but it will fly right over the heads of nearly every single active Jehovah's Witness out there...

    My areas of interest have included geology [volcanoes - read Exodus 19: 16-19, if you're interested...], archaeology [especially goddess worship - which has origins which are FAR older than the bible], paleo-archaeology [one of my favorite items to point out to Witnesses is the "Berekhat Ram" figurine...], so I usually use those areas in most discussions with Jehovah's Witnesses.

    Here's a thread of mine, started shortly after such an encounter at the door... [Not to tootle my own horn, but... ]

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/212300/1/Guys-Guys-Two-Jehovahs-Witnesses-were-just-at-my-door

    Zid - the board's She-Devil

    still thinking posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 11:00:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 2745 of 7434
    Joined 3/11/2011

    LOL...I bet you're a 'do not call' zid

    ziddina posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 11:12:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 8713 of 10377
    Joined 4/8/2009

    Well, I haven't been, so far...

    Despite my best efforts to become one.

    But I have too much fun with them when they DO call, to ask to be put on the "Do Not Call" list...

    I'm jes' an eeeeeeee - vil lil' ol' She-Devil!!

    still thinking posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 11:30:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 2747 of 7434
    Joined 3/11/2011

    OMG they must be gluttons for punishment in your area...either that, or they're sending people round cause they heard you have the truth...LOL...you mght be an evolution evangelist!

    ziddina posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 11:39:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 8715 of 10377
    Joined 4/8/2009

    Whoa, I wouldn't say that...

    The essence of my approach isn't really based on evolution - it's based on the very obvious fact that the bible 'god' is one of the YOUNGEST 'deity/deities' worshipped today... And that most of the bible's mythology is based on older, so-called "pagan" religions...

    It REALLY grinds them to hear that goddesses were worshipped LONG before those Bronze-Age Middle-Eastern male volcano 'gods' were imagined into existence.

    However, speaking of evolution - it could be fun to do an evolutionary "tree" showing the origins and branching of Christianity, with special focus on the 2nd Day Adventist origins of the International Bible Students/Jehovah's Witnesses - complete with a scan of that old 2nd Day Adventist magazine trumpeting 1914 as THEIR special 'time-of-the-end', around the time that Russell was starting HIS religious scam...

    Hee hee hee heee!!

    still thinking posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 12:10:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 2750 of 7434
    Joined 3/11/2011

    So, when you tell them this stuff...do they get that glazed over...wait till you've finished before they try and pass you an awake look? Or do they ask questions?

    I'm so hoping your going to tell me they ask questions...have you ever had someone come back and continue the conversation on their next visit?

    ziddina posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 12:31:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 8717 of 10377
    Joined 4/8/2009

    It depends on the person, but....

    There's an advantage to the Watchtower Corporation's attempts to appear moderately "up-to-date" regarding scientific discoveries. I don't know whether they adopted that stance because it made the "Awake!" more palateable to "worldlies", or because they were trying to be "different" from the Catholic Church - which has frequently opposed most forms of scientific discovery...

    At any rate, if the JW has even a modicum of acceptance of scientific information, one can REALLY nail them with that.

    The older woman in that twosome I spoke of, in my earlier thread, CLEARLY knew how old the bible actually was... And she was moderately aware that the bible wasn't really all that old. AND when I stated my premise - that the OLDEST "god" was most likely the "true" god, she had to agree - the logic of that was inescapable, for her...

    [unfortunately not so inescapeable for some of our on-board numnuts like AGuest, tec, and Flying High Now - whose idiotic idea that the Native Americans were MONO-theists BEFORE the arrival of the white man and Christianity, is TOTALLY wrong....]

    As this book suggests - an anthropological study of Native American beliefs as viewed by early French settlers...

    http://classiques.uqac.ca/contemporains/desy_pierrette/a_secret_sentiment/a_secret_sentiment.html

    Anyway, if one ran into a JW version of AGuest or tec or Flying High Now, this argument wouldn't work, because their brains would flee from any logical evidence that opposed their special little belief system.

    But the Watchtower Corporation likes to put on a show of being "logical", which makes it much easier to pin down Witnesses with the aforementioned lines of logic.

    And for 'extra credit', one can always use Watchtower weasel words & phrases in their arguments, too - like "evidently"; "so we can see by this"; "we can be sure that..."

    Zid who's going back to bed... I hate insomnia...

    ziddina posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 12:33:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 8718 of 10377
    Joined 4/8/2009

    Oh, and none of them have ever come back for a second visit... [eeeeee - vil grin!!]

    I keep getting different people at the door...

    still thinking posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:22:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 2751 of 7434
    Joined 3/11/2011

    zid...you're a blessing.......hope you manage to get some sleep.

    But the Watchtower Corporation likes to put on a show of being "logical", ....*evidently* they're not the only ones, all sorts of christians like to put on that same show.

    Flat_Accent posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:32:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 240 of 440
    Joined 11/28/2011

    Thanks for the suggestions guys. Zid, you're just too much to handle for those poor 'dubs. xd

    I've got an interest in archeology of late - there's been several programs on recently about very ancient civilizations. Particularly the one's in Peru and the Latin Americas which date to pre-flood times!

    But if he does come round I think i'll stick to the topic at hand. I'm not sure what he'd bring to try and debate with me - hopefully its the brochure because I can use my cheat sheet for that.

    Read that scripture in Exodus, too. 'To be sure', that does sound awfully like a volcano. :L

    nugget posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 13:40:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 2808 of 3903
    Joined 11/22/2009

    if he comes with the brochure ask him to come back when he has photocopies of all the articles and sources quoted so you can check the source material against the quotes in the book. ~Make him work to prove his beliefs to you, chances are he won't bother.

    F blondie posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 16:31:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 33517 of 37886
    Joined 5/28/2001

    Good idea, nugget. We know how the WTS cherrypicks snippets and sentences out of context to support their ideas. They are there to convince YOU not to learn anything knew because they already KNOW the TRUTH.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/194447/1/DC-2010-Release-The-Origin-of-Life-and-its-many-misquotes

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/196917/1/Counting-the-errors-in-one-section-of-the-Origin-of-Life-brouchure

    http://www.freeminds.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2439:refutation-of-watchtowers-qorigin-of-lifeq-and-qwas-life-createdq-brochures&catid=14:science&Itemid=710

    source: http://www.mediafire.com/?3wil5bzi59b2l8f

    TOTH posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 18:43:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 375 of 662
    Joined 1/9/2012

    Any amount of time you can divert them and keep them at YOUR door you are wasting their time and saving lives! We should all DO MORE in this lifesaving work!

    Knowsnothing posted Sun, 01 Apr 2012 19:26:00 GMT(4/1/2012)

    Post 703 of 1260
    Joined 3/2/2011
    If so, what should I ask this mysterious Steve character?

    Disprove the Flood. It works wonders. Tree-ring dating baby! Yeah!

    Godsendconspirator posted Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:13:00 GMT(4/3/2012)

    Post 22 of 131
    Joined 12/18/2011

    When I was talking to a sister she said "evolution makes no sense because it's impossible for everything to come to be from one little bacteria." Because the universe being created in a week out of nothing by an invisible man makes SO much more sense.

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