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Those who still show up at the meetings, How do you manage?.

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    MrFreeze posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 03:40:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 2095 of 4031
    Joined 5/29/2010

    bigmac, we have plenty of examples on this forum of men who leave and the family does not leave. It creates horrible situations when the mate does not follow suit. Maybe it will work for some... but for most it will not.

    bigmac posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 09:42:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 541 of 1790
    Joined 7/12/2010

    ok--ive taken on board all these comments. to sum up my views--

    once again its all down to fear: a person attends those pointless meetings for fear of offending or even losing family. so they live a lie.

    then what happens if things get serious--like that blood business for example?

    i admire those who have made a stand--and left the religion. i feel pity for those who CHOOSE to stay in---no one is forcing them--its their choice.

    M nicolaou posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 09:56:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 4568 of 4822
    Joined 2/12/2001

    It is their choice bigmac but it is not a free choice. The choice to leave would come at a great cost for many - the family they love. For what it's worth I actually agree with most of what you say, I just feel you could temper your comments with a little more compassion.

    People are hurting, this is NOT black and white.

    ziddina posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:05:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 8107 of 10450
    Joined 4/8/2009

    Sheesh, Big Mac...

    It's a "Shun Gun", pure and simple....

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/221945/1/The-gun-is-the-SHUN-the-JWs-who-no-longer-believe-but-cannot-leave

    biometrics posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 10:25:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 6 of 641
    Joined 2/21/2012

    Wow. I didn't realize there are so many still going to the meetings.

    I quit cold turkey! You could almost say I shunned the Watchtower Society. I didn't even go to the memorial (twice now).

    The elders came and had a little talk with me. I said "Do you really beleive everything the Watchtower tells you?" they never answered that question.

    My wife still has studies once per week. I sit in. When the elder asks if I agree (usually about WTBS being God's only channel), I point blank say I don't agree. Then he'll say something like where else can you go.

    M Gadget posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 11:15:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 2768 of 2557
    Joined 5/25/2003

    To answer the initial question, when I was still attending meetings I found I could shut it out to a point but then it got too much and I stopped going. I've since found out this is a classic example of cognitive dissonance theory. The body regulates itself by homeostasis and an imbalance between what a person internalises as beliefs and externalises as actions causes instability. Longterm instability causes functional problems so the body corrects it by either changing the internal beliefs or the outward behaviour so they are once again in balance. How long someone could keep up a pretense would depend on the individual but you would hope it would be long enough to reach those important to them. When I was regular on here there were a few doing this, and most of them seemed to end up being out within a year or two.

    Bigmac, it may seem like they're living a lie but would it not be more accurate to say they're taking a hit for the team for the sake of their family? As for your comment that any man as head of the house should be able to make a common sense arguement and have a chance of saving his family I find it frankly ridiculous and misinformed. Have you ever tried using common sense in arguing with a true believing fundamentalist? If thats all it took there wouldn't be any jw's anymore. When you were a true believing jw I'd bet there were facts you ionterpretted very differntly to how you interptret them now as an ex'jw. To me it takes a bigger man to choose a difficult route for the long term good of his family then to let the testosterone take over and put your foot down.

    From your first comment it seems to me that you think that people putting their family beofre themselves makes a pathetic thread and they should get a life. If you truly believe this then its your own choice and good luck to you. But if you've only said them to stir things up, as you stated on another forum, then its a bit below the belt imho.

    http://www.facebook.com/groups/16607015897/10150816482450898/

    Phizzy posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 13:44:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 488 of 6963
    Joined 12/17/2011

    When I walked away I was alone ,my children were already out, but they are adults now, so my wife and all my close family were still in. My family is just producing its fifth generation of JWs.

    I did not know what would happen, I knew it was on the cards that I would be alone, no family , no friends apart from the few "worldly" people I count as friends but who I had not been that great to because I was aJW.

    I could no longer stomach the inside of a K.H . I was lucky, my wife followed me. had she not it would have put a terrific strain on our relationship.

    I can see why some still go, I just could not, I would literally puke. I do think though that it would be best to set yourself a time limit on how long you keep going, you are achieving nothing while you go, once you stop it is much better for you,and is more likely to help your family, but you have to accept the flack and the problems.

    I say good luck to all, you must decide what is best for you and yours.

    winstonchurchill posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:14:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 214 of 223
    Joined 3/9/2009

    Please don't take it personally, BigMac but your post is a good example that shows JW's don't have the monopoly on intolerance.

    I still attend and serve as an elder, and have my many and good reasons to do so. While I understand the flaws of the situation, the inconsitency and yes, the dishonesty to some degree, I have MY reasons. I enjoy reading the forum, but I participate less and less, as almost invariably I get beaten for "living a lie" and such common places.

    Being part of a 'church' (and that's what JW's are) while not actually believing and supporting all said 'church' teaches, is something 90% of churchgoers in America do. I'm not that different. Romney is a Mormon and does not believe in magic underwear, Huntsman is a Mormon and believes in evolution, and two thirds of Catholic women use birth control.

    Religion will not be banned overnight (BTW, that's something JW's teach will happen).

    WTWizard posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 14:48:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 12845 of 14942
    Joined 5/10/2007

    I can think of one reason to attend boasting sessions and do at least fake field circus when you realize it's all rubbish. Besides having family in, you might try cutting back in an attempt to waste resources of the congregation that otherwise could have been used to expand something. Go to just enough to keep them hoping you are going back, keep that up for a time, and when you're ready, pull the plug. They will waste their time hunting for your slip. It helps if you have more than one congregation at your Kingdumb Hell.

    Another tip: Turn in your time slip late. If you skip a month in reporting, put in two separate slips in the box at the same time. Next time, they will waste more time hunting for your slip (which isn't there) only to have it turn up with your next slip. Then, once you pull the plug, they will waste more time hunting for your slip (which, this time, they aren't getting at all).

    M BluesBrother posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:23:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 7062 of 8487
    Joined 10/29/2001

    Ok...call me pathetic if you like but I attend on a Sunday to assist family...I help with the bags , get the seats and hear all the complaints afterwards about the meeting!!!

    I never answer, I never sing. I just sit . Sometimes I sit and think, other times I just sit....I am no longer even on the inactive list since we moved since I last served. The elders are polite..the "bro's" are friendly. I seem to be accepted as part of the furniture. A while back an elder gave me an afternoon of his time. I told him exactly what I would say on here (O K , a little more politely but I said the same things) He went away and seems to have given up on me since he has not come back. They do not seem minded to raise any apostasy issues.

    Yes , in a way it is a pathetic way of life but life is not always the way that we would have it to be. Would I not just love to have the family open their minds to the falsehood of "The Truth"....but so far that has not happened and certainly my disassociation would do nothing to help that. Do not forget that the believers would then be told never to discuss the faith with me. At least as it is, we can have some discussion and I can make a few points ..when the time is right..

    wisdomfrombelow posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 16:43:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 5 of 160
    Joined 1/30/2012

    I sit quietly as a disfellowshipped person and smile. I listen to what is said, how it is said and wonder what it would be like for a stranger to come in and sit there. I wonder what it would be like if I brought a friend there so they could experience what the Jehovah's Witness church is like. It can be very entertaining...especially knowing that I don't have to worry about fake people pretending to be my friends talking to me.

    bigmac posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:49:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 542 of 1790
    Joined 7/12/2010

    when i was an active pioneering servant JW---46 years ago---i saw many meeting attending ditherers week in week out--all there for the sake of keeping the peace at home. are things any different now--how would i know--? but how many of this "7 million" members are in this category? the mind boggles.

    and as for this business of serving as an elder---well ive stated my feelings on here :-in an argument with elderelite. if you are an elder--and yet on here--well--its your choice--but you are representing the interests of a false religion you profess to despise.

    @ gadget---i conclude you are a member of the FB site you refer to--but i cant remember your name on there. sorry.

    M nicolaou posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 17:58:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 4569 of 4822
    Joined 2/12/2001
    I still attend and serve as an elder, and have my many and good reasons to do so. While I understand the flaws of the situation, the inconsitency and yes, the dishonesty to some degree, I have MY reasons.

    It's one thing to ATTEND the meetings for the sake of family, even give the token comment at the Watchtower if you must (personally I couldn't even do that once the doubts had started) but to actually DISPENSE the disinformation and serve the Watchtower as an elder? Sorry but I just cannot respect that position.

    You say you have your reasons but unless you're prepared to say what they are then I think you can't complain when people accuse you of 'living a lie'. There's fading and there's inactivity but to dispense the kool-aid as a serving elder?! C'mon man.

    Do you sit on judicial committees too?

    winstonchurchill posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 18:08:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 215 of 223
    Joined 3/9/2009

    Do you sit on judicial committees too?

    You should. Obviously you are good judge.

    M nicolaou posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 18:14:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 4570 of 4822
    Joined 2/12/2001

    Hit a nerve did I?

    C'mon mate tell us what's really going on, we might actually end up understanding each other!

    winstonchurchill posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 18:37:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 216 of 223
    Joined 3/9/2009

    Yes, you hit a nerve. Someone who has been part of very particular organization (to put it mildly) for most of his life, and starts pondering and re-evaluating everything, tired of being constantly judged and being under scrutiny... finds this forum, expresses his opinion, and then gets (guess what?) judged!

    People are different. Some are invested to a higher degree into the org. Some are at different stages of the process. Some leave quickly, some take years, some never leave.

    You don't know me. In this forum I've chosen to disclose limited information about myself. I was a CO for many years. Very well known. That's not your fault. But acusing me while having limited information, that's very JW'ish.

    You don't know how I serve as an elder. You acuse me of dispensing information I don't believe, but you don't know what I believe in and what I don't.

    I was the first one to point there's a degree of dishonesty in my current situation.

    By that metric, this forum would be reduced to those who already left de JW's and comply with a very strict set of opinions about the JW's. The rest of us, should shut up, and stay away. Does anyone see the irony?

    But, in all honesty, thanks for your comments. Exchanging ideas it's what it's all about.

    And since you asked, yes, I've been part of two JC in the past 5 years. None ended with a DF, and i like to think I played a role in such outcome.

    Nelrow23 posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:06:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 2 of 2
    Joined 2/17/2010

    bigmac posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:11:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 543 of 1790
    Joined 7/12/2010

    @winstonchurchill---you served on 2 judicials/---and no one was D/F'd?---errr--you seem almost glad of that!! whatever next on here

    @ anyone else reading this:---make no mistake--the watchtower society/JW's call it what you like----is a dangerous--but thankfully a very small cult. by continuing to attend--you are helping it survive. just imagine the impact on their reported figures if all you ditherers stopped associating.

    the expression --"put your money where your mouth is" comes to mind

    openmindnow posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:12:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 23 of 24
    Joined 9/30/2011

    Unlike some, I would welcome all the elders in the KH I have to attend for personal family reasons to be regular posters to this site. Listen when someone says that an seemly active JW publisher, MS, Elder, Pioneer, (dare I hope, CO) is being dishonest, I say "How do you know"? I consider myself a 5th columeist within the WTBTS, I can express my true feeling in a subtle but honest fashion. I can say "I find nothing wrong with gay people, and hope there is new light about them so some of our brothers and sisters can serve Jehovah more openly". Wow when I say that the drones almost passout, then I get asked how I could even believe such a thing, at that point I can point out that since adam and eve sinned all humans are inperfect and Jehovah "ALLOWED" that imperfection so I see no reason why there won't be new light about gays just as there was about interacial marriage, or all people being equal reguardless of there skin color,......and now the drone is thinking!

    M nicolaou posted Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:20:00 GMT(2/28/2012)

    Post 4571 of 4822
    Joined 2/12/2001
    People are different. Some are invested to a higher degree into the org. Some are at different stages of the process. Some leave quickly, some take years, some never leave.

    Well said. Look, I'm sorry if I came off a bit strong but I do feel strongly about this. It's about personal integrity. I hope you'll continue to post 'Winston', you have a thoughtful, articulate style of writing and I'm hoping to get to know you better.

    Nic

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