Where do you go from here?


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    still looking posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:46:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 12/5/2010

    After either being a Witness or studying with them, and you find out stuff that has you leave, where do you go?

    I don't think they are the true religion, but I do think they teach a lot of stuff that is correct. Like the trinity being a false doctrine, no idle worship, including crosses, and hell isn't a forever torture.

    Has anyone found another religion that doesn't embrace those things? I am also a believer that pagan traditions, such as Christmas is wrong. My grandfather who was Dutch reform in name only, used to preach that every Christmas.

    My family never went to church or had any religious belief when I was growing up. I went with a friend to a Lutheran Church and at age 8, with no bible education what so ever, I looked at the large crucifix that hung behind the preachers pulpit. It said thou shall have no graven images, and even back then, I thought, "what's wrong with this picture." Spent a weekend at a friends house when I was 9 and went to the Catholic church with her. That is when they still had the masses in Latin. Scared the crap out of me, all those statues, the chanting, the smoke. Reminded me something from a late night horror movie. I ended up taking communion, just did what my girlfriend told me, then found out that it was a sin. I don't believe the Catholics are the true religion either, so that didn't concern me.

    But is there a relgion that encompasses the truth without the cult? Or do I just keep studying the bible and praying and living my life as I best I can following the bible's principles.

    I am a bit gunshy after all that I went through with the JW's, of where I was looked at as a number in a book, for attendance or hours. I was really upset when I found out my pioneer was calling me in the morning for a chat, not because we were friends, but to start her hours, so she could go back to sleep, but start the timer from the time I answered the phone. Heck, a lot of the time we were witnessing, we were at garage sales and such. I asked if we should stop our time and start it when we were done. Nope. Like God doesn't know?

    I don't want to be just a paycheck for the next preacher who comes along. Is there any true religions out there, or has religion been too corrupted, that even those that preach it don't realize it anymore?

    M leavingwt posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 16:49:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

    Post 10055 of 14200
    Joined 6/16/2008

    Where do you go from here?

    You get to decide to go wherever you'd like to go. This is what Liberty is all about.

    Regarding the doctrines you've mentioned, ALL of them are based upon a unique interpretation of Scripture. Black-and-white thinking in these areas will likely just frustrate and confuse you.

    Welcome to the forum!

    tec posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:02:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 3/5/2010

    Welcome Still Looking.

    You just go to Christ. He is the truth. You're not going to know everything or get everything right, and neither is any denomination out there - except to follow Christ, and to have faith in Him. That is the work that God requires of us. Read the bible if you want or need to (preferably not the NWT - I like the NIV), and 'hear' the mercy and the love and the faith that He both taught and lived, that covered over any sin, rule or regulation. Then live by that.

    He is who you go to. The rest of us... we all make mistakes and can mislead, out of malice or ignorance.

    Oh, and I don't believe that taking communion is a sin for anyone. No matter what age, or level in a church hierarchy. Christ told us to eat his flesh and drink his blood - otherwise we have no life in ourselves. It was men who created rituals and rules and limitations around that.


    sabastious posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:04:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 2/3/2010
    I don't want to be just a paycheck for the next preacher who comes along. Is there any true religions out there, or has religion been too corrupted, that even those that preach it don't realize it anymore?

    I'd recommend a non-denominational Christian church in your area. Problem is many of those are cults too.

    My first recommendation is just chill out for a while (maybe a year or two) and just do some personal research and find your spiritual niche by yourself then seek out others who feel the same way as you.


    M OnTheWayOut posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:10:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

    Post 12506 of 18578
    Joined 9/8/2006
    Has anyone found another religion that doesn't embrace those things?

    I could answer with a list of religions, but the vast majority that don't embrace those things you listed would be non-Christian and many of the others would have something you object to.

    You don't need organized religion. That's a leftover from JW thinking. Or you can find some sort of organized religion that simply encourages you to look at things for yourself and it isn't so rigid in insisting that you do things or believe things exactly the way the rest of the flock does.

    If you need sermons on Sunday or like-minded followers of Christ, you can find them. No lightning wil strike you if you visit churches and don't find "the truth" in them. Enjoy your journey to seeking truth.

    antes8080 posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:18:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 9/16/2010

    welcome still looking!!! i also think that some of there doctrines are correct like the trinity and others but you also just have to search for yourself and beleive what you whant...

    tec what translation is the NIV

    tec posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:23:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Antes - NIV = New International Version. I know there are others that are more recommended, but I love the flow of the language in this one, and I've used it for many years.


    OUTLAW posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:31:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

    Post 18435 of 24022
    Joined 10/11/2001

    Take a Left at the next "StarBucks"..

    Then follow the Yellow Brick Road..


    ..................... ...OUTLAW

    M NomadSoul posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:39:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

    Post 127 of 1661
    Joined 2/7/2005

    I recommend looking into Atheism.

    antes8080 posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 17:43:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 9/16/2010

    thank you tec will go get one,, i just got two difrent translations in the past weeks and dont mind getting another..

    still looking posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 18:45:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

    Post 2 of 10
    Joined 12/5/2010

    I could never be an athiest. Even though I was never brought up with any type of spirituality, as early as the age of 4, I believed in God. I don't know where I got it from. I'd talk to my mother about it, and she never discouraged it, but never did anything to help with it either. I remember watching the pope come off a plane on TV and asked my mother if that was God and she said no. I said why are all those people flocking to him, she said they were nuts. My mother was raised a Catholic and told me plenty of stories, including sexual abuse, when I was older. She let it be known, that wasn't the correct religion. I figured that was why she didn't push a religion. She studied with the witnesses and like me thought they were correct. But she never went to the meetings much, just keeps them at the periphery. They used to drop by with literature, but I guess they thought she wasn't worth the effort.

    I find that the one good thing the JW's did was point me to a bible and help me understand. Unfortunately they helped me understand it so good, that I saw that their tree bore some pretty rotten fruit.

    I was told the diamond story, the closer you look, the more blemishes you will find.

    And honestly, I have to say, the meetings were so boring, the music was tedious, I think God would want something a little more uplifting. Can;t they come up with anything as pretty as Amazing Grace. It was like singing durges. I felt like everything was gray They'd read the paragraph, and a person would raise their hand and just read verbatem the sentence in the paragraph they were looking for. I'd answer what I thought it meant, without word for word, and no matter what, everyone got the same response from the elder. And when I went to those 3 day events, it was always the same old stuff. They would say, there's something new and big, and then there wasn't. But we all acted like it was manna from heaven. I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt this.

    We are all human and all make mistakes, that I know. Some of the stuff going on with one of the women I studied with, probably would have caused her to be disfellowshipped if they ever found out. And from what I knew, the JW's are a heck of a lot less forgiving to women than they are to men.

    I saw a big change in the JW's when I moved from one state to another. The ones who studied with me at first were kind, patient, never pushy. They wanted me to get baptized, I didn't think I was ready. Then when I moved to another state, they were clickish, cold. After studying for a while I told them I'd like to be baptized, now they said I couldn't, yet I could go out in service.

    That wasn't what drove me away from them, but I was amazed at the difference. I remember one study person that was brought to my house by my pioneer came to the hall. The pioneer wasn't there. The poor woman stood in the doorway like a deer caught in the headlights, looking for the pioneer, which was known to not let the study know when she wasn't going to be there, so they would still show up. I could see she was getting ready to take off. I watched as no one stood up and greeted her. I, who had only been there a short time, and felt it wasn't my place yet, got up and walked her to a seat and sat next to her. I watched as they all stared at the poor woman as she walked to her seat. They came up and talked afterword, but really, what was that?

    I wonder if it was just the area, or if in the couple years I was away from JW's they changed, maybe something from the higher ups.

    When I went to the first hall, you couldn't get in without being mobbed, by polite and friendly people.

    I think most of you are right. I think it's a path we all need to find for ourselves. Maybe there is some sort of need that draws us to this type of cultish religion to make us feel like we are belonging or doing something for the good of God. We turn a blind eye to the mistakes and mistreatment of others within the congregation. You don't dare speak up. You follow like good little sheep. And by all means, don't get sick, if you don't show up, you are weak in the faith. I saw people with pneumonia coming to the hall, just so they wouldn't be badgered.

    They start out so nice, and then like a frog in water, they slowly turn up the heat, they want more of your time, telling you who you should hang with and who not. What activities you can have. I was told not to garden because it took away from witnessing. I wasn't even baptized. I started feeling like a machine. I was no longer working for God, but for a number in their book so they could publish it in a book or magazine somewhere. I have to wonder how many other religions do that to you, hold out the promise of God and then suck the life out of you.

    I was watching a special on Jim Jones in Jonestown a while back. All those people who willingly, drank the Kool-aid. Many didn't and were shot or held and poisoned. Some held their babies to be poisoned. It's amazing how far a human will go to follow a man or an organization, and lose all common sense. They instill a fear that God will hate you if you don't cross your T's and dot your I's as they see fit.

    I still remember the threat, that one day, just like the ark, the witnesses will close their doors and not let anyone in, come the time of the end. No matter how much you beg.

    I wonder if most religions use that tactic.

    I did read late into the night, last night, about the guy who leaked out info on the elders. He went into how, like tec said, follow Jesus, his teachings are kind and loving. It's hard to give up that whole "faith without works is dead" thing they imprint on your brain. I will always believe in right and wrong, there are sins, we are all sinners, and we shouldn't break the commandments willingly. Place the bar high. I also believe we will all fall short. But I have to start looking a lot more into the unconditional love that Jesus offers. That was barely touched on, and I think that is what needs to be taught the most. That is what gives a person heart and soul, not just to be duty bound like an SS officer or something. I saw one of the elders wives witnessing, and she was harsh and pushy. The people would just slam the door or most were polite, but would say no. I thought, where was her heart, these people didn't know all she knew, it took time. Then I wondered if maybe she liked the congregation small and this was a way to insure it. I'll never know, but if her heart was in it, it wasn't in the right place. Probably, she too, was feeling pressured and under the gun. So much is put on the women, since a lot of them didn't work and were expected to do nothing else.

    I was wondering if there was an organized religion that worked on that premise, of teaching with the carrot, and not so much with the stick. But one that still upheld biblical values, not an anything goes approach.

    Probably not.

    M undercover posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 19:15:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

    Post 11115 of 13146
    Joined 9/25/2002

    Why do you need an organized religion? If you believe in God...and you believe that the Bible is his Holy Word, then just read it, apply it to yourself, your life. Live as an example of Jesus. Believe what you believe God, and Jesus, is telling you through that book.

    If you happen to find a religion that agrees with you...or allows you to believe as you wish, fine...if not, then if you're sincere then surely your God will understand and accept your worship even if it's not through some incorporated and trademarked corporation.

    Heaven posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 19:22:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 4/16/2009

    Welcome still looking!

    I remember watching the pope come off a plane on TV and asked my mother if that was God and she said no. I said why are all those people flocking to him, she said they were nuts.

    Your Mom is a smart lady.

    Everyone in life has to face answering this question about where to go as we move through the different phases of our lives. After graduating high school, where do you go? After you have retired from work, where do you go? When you are aged and can no longer take care of yourself, where do you go? Everything I have read and been educated on says you need to have a plan. Time to start creating one.

    I feel from reading your words that you are looking outside for something when perhaps what you really need to do is look inward to yourself.

    Your life is yours to create and live. How do you wish to do this? How will you fulfill your needs?

    About religions... what I have found is that they are man-made constructs. It may look great from the outside, but it only takes one nut job at the top to make it into a cult and a nightmare. Each of them have their hierarchies and rules to follow. They are not necessary to have a relationship with God or Christ. But they are necessary if you want fellowship and community with like-minded people in regards to a faith or a belief.

    Ding posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 19:27:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 8/27/2010

    I would recommend reading the Bible without the Watchtower publications.

    Pray for guidance as you studying your Bible.

    Try starting with Romans and Galatians.

    When Randy Watters and a number of Bethelites did that in the 1980s, they saw how different the real message of the Bible is than what they were taught as JWs.

    Many of them have embraced doctrines they never would have considered as JWs, including some of the ones you mentioned.

    But you need to study things for yourself rather than having some organization or leader tell you what to believe.

    If you'd like to PM me, I'll be glad to give you my opinions on various subjects and try to back them up from scripture, but it's purely up to you whether you want to do that or not.

    I don't want to try to lead you down paths you don't want or aren't ready to explore.

    clarity posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 20:32:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 8/9/2010

    Still looking hi, welcome to this wild & not so crazy place!

    You hit the gong on every point you made!


    "I think God would want something a little more uplifting. Can;t they come up with anything as pretty as Amazing Grace" AMEN!

    For years I longed for the Love of Jesus to be confirmed from the platform, instead of beatings!! The churches even have a song for that ..."YES, Jesus love ME!!,for the bible tells me so". So simple, so fills my heart. Amazing Grace makes me weep!

    Of course we do have that lovely little tune ..."From door to door ....lala laaala lala

    Hang in there


    3Mozzies posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 21:44:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 8/22/2010

    Welcome Still Looking

    Glad you found us here. Keep reading and searching and your journey will take you places you never thought possible.

    Is there any true religions out there . . .

    'True Religion' is an oxymoron.


    bohm posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 21:49:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

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    Joined 5/12/2009

    I don't think they are the true religion, but I do think they teach a lot of stuff that is correct. Like the trinity being a false doctrine, no idle worship, including crosses, and hell isn't a forever torture.

    Has anyone found another religion that doesn't embrace those things?

    Here you go: http://www.venganza.org/


    tec posted Mon, 06 Dec 2010 23:38:00 GMT(12/6/2010)

    Post 3194 of 12869
    Joined 3/5/2010
    But I have to start looking a lot more into the unconditional love that Jesus offers. That was barely touched on, and I think that is what needs to be taught the most. That is what gives a person heart and soul, not just to be duty bound like an SS officer or something

    I think you've hit the nail on the head with this. We do things backward. We teach rules and consequences and expect people to follow them for the sake of those rules or the consequences that come from not following them. But what we need to do is to teach love. Teach one another the love of Christ and God, and then everything else will flow from that... only then can we say that the law is written on our hearts and our consciences. We have to truly act out of love and faith, and not what other people say is acting out of love and/or faith - which is really just blindly following rules.


    F AGuest posted Tue, 07 Dec 2010 00:32:00 GMT(12/7/2010)

    Post 5455 of 9452
    Joined 3/26/2001

    Dearest StillLooking... may you have peace! If you can, pay close attention to what dear tec (peace to you, dear one!) has responded to you. There are some words of wisdom, there and, possibly answers to what you are looking for. Or rather, as dear tec stated... WHOM you should be looking for. You don't have to go to any church or through any other man: there is One who is our mediator, leader, and teacher. Problem is, some lack the faith to go directly through him. As a result, the "need" others... or "the Bible" to show them.

    I would warn you of both, however... men (and women)... and the Bible. Unless one is led by Holy Spirit... all that one "drinks"... is tainted. The cleanest "water", however, is to be had directly from the Source, isn't it? Before it has passed down the riverway and through the city... where it has either picked up debris and pollutants... or been stripped of all nutrients? If, then, you go to Christ... God's Source for LIVING water... whatever drink you receive will be pure... and unadulterated.

    I know that doing this is difficult for many. It's because we don't necessarily have the requisite faith to HEAR him. But we can... if we can either muster faith the size of a mustard seed... or, where we lack faith... ask for it. If, however, you still can't quite put faith in what I am sharing... and need to "see it in writing," then perhaps a reading of the following might help (though, make NO mistake... going directly to Christ WILL help and should be all you NEED to do, as the following states):

    John 4:14; 5:39, 40; 6:48-48; 7:37, 38; 10:1-15; 27; and 14:1-15:33

    You seem to be at a crossroads... not necessarily in your faith in God and Christ... but in your understanding of "how" to worship God. But you already know: in [the] Spirit and in [the] Truth... as a small child... in faith. May the Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies (Psalm 68:4), therefore, grant you His loving kindness and mercy, through His Word (John 1:14; Revelation 19:13)... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH, who is the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17), which Holy Spirit He will send to you... to guide and teach you... by means of the "oil of exultation"... life's water... God's holy spirit... which that One will pour out upon those asking... in faith.

    One way you can DEMONSTRATE your faith is by obeying his (Christ's) word (John 14:23) including that which is recorded at John 6:51-53.

    I bid you peace... and ears to hear... when the Spirit and the Bride say to YOU:

    "Come! Take's 'lift's water'... the holy spirit of God... which 'water' is poured out from the innermost parts of His Son and Christ, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, my Lord... JAHESHUA MISCHAJAH... free!"

    YOUR servant, as I am servant to ALL those of the Household of God, Israel, and those who go with... and a slave of Christ,

    tec posted Tue, 07 Dec 2010 01:22:00 GMT(12/7/2010)

    Post 3197 of 12869
    Joined 3/5/2010

    Peace back to you, Shelby :)


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