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WTBS taking care of older ones?

    roadrunner027 posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:07:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 3 of 5
    Joined 3/20/2004

    Does anyone know if the society/organization is financially taking care of the older ones?

    My husband and I left the org over 10 years ago, we are of the generation where our parents came to the JW's in the 70's, gave up everything they owned, had no college education, and stuck to the usual janitorial/construction jobs so they wouldn't miss any meetings. This of coarse means they have no retirement money and see nothing wrong with that as the end of the system is soon upon us. (sigh)

    Now our parents are entering their 60's, my mother in law just left my father in law and moved in with us, because she had no where else to go. During her 40yr marriage my father in law worked while she pioneered. She has never worked, has no retirement and thinks she can live with us while pioneering and pay her way by cleaning our house. This is not fair to me as I am already working full-time to support my family while taking care of her sick son, my husband (willingly!)

    My husband and I are very upset at this situation and feel the society should be financially taking care of these socially inept and financially handicapped older ones as they were only following the societys advice. As people of this generation get older, the society must see growing problem as this will affect their income with less donations.

    Has the society posted any articles in magazines saying those in the congregation need to financially support and take care of the elderly ones?

    As far as we are concerned, the society created this mess they can now deal with problems they have caused. Same with my mother in law, she has continued to blindly follow this organization so she should now lean on them and not us for support.

    Thanks!

    Marie

    M fokyc posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:10:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 1155 of 1874
    Joined 5/30/2006

    You jest of course?

    They do not take any responsibility for the 1975 fiasco.

    There are a few retirement homes run by the WTBTS, perhaps they would help.

    fokyc

    hamsterbait posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:11:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 3024 of 4470
    Joined 7/7/2004

    The onus is on

    1: The Family first and foremost (especially believing relatives)

    2: The congregation if the old one has no family.

    The Witchtower does not use any money to help the poor among them. They point out repeatedly that he purpose of the Borg is to promote the preaching work, and touts for contributions to the World Wide Pedo Defense Fund for that purpose.

    Its all in the litterature.

    If you complain to the elduhs, they will prolly ask why you have such an ungenerous spirit.

    HB

    minimus posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:12:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 29832 of 35828
    Joined 7/3/2002

    The only thing I've seen is that the Congregation Elders have a schedule and assignments to visit the infirm in my mother's Hall. Many of them seem genuinely concerned, for what it's worth.

    M alanv posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:15:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 201 of 779
    Joined 12/20/2005

    I think the society would say that everyone had a choice as to how much they would do in the service. So if they are suffering now as a result of getting it wrong years ago then it is really is their own fault. In many countries the state helps those older people who can't help so the society see no need to help.

    If push comes to shove as they say, they would expect others in the cong. to help them out. There certainly would be no handouts from Brooklyn.

    roadrunner027 posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:20:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 4 of 5
    Joined 3/20/2004

    I agree with you hampsterbait and being in this position has made me wonder about the other older ones. I know my mother in law can't be the only one in this situation. When my own mother disowned me for leaving the witnesses, I told her there and then that if she will from now on not treat me as her daughter then she can turn to her witness friends for help as she ages. My parents are now in the middle of losing their home and have no where to go. So I'm sitting back and watching to see if the witnesses will step up to the plate and open their homes to them. (Ok..you can insert laughter here) :-)

    nugget posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 17:44:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 321 of 3773
    Joined 11/22/2009

    There are no plans for the society to assist older ones who have got into financial difficulties because they made no provision for their retirement. I think the legal bods thought this might come up and I am sure I saw in the magazines that people should plan for retirement whilst hoping the system ends soon. Oh and don't forget to leave money to the society in your will.

    The societies approach has always been to say to those in difficulty "keep warm and well fed."

    I suggest where possible your husband is the one who approaches the topic with his mother, otherwise you are the evil one, she needs to know that you both feel the same way and there is no emotional leverage.

    If your mum in law is fit it may be worth your husband suggesting that since her circumstances have changed she needs to be more proactive about finding a part time job rather than pioneering. She may genuinely be unaware of the cost of living and the financial strain she is placing on the household. Show her how much you have to pay out each month for amenities etc divide by people in the house and show her how much a meaningful contribution would be. She may be quite shocked to discover how expensive things are. Even Paul supported himself whilst pioneering because he appreciated that he couldn't be a pioneer and a financial burden on others.

    I feel for her she was expecting to see a reward for all her hard work and instead she is in dire straights but she is still to a certain extent living in a fantasy world. In your household everyone contributes financially so she needs to be prepared to do so as well if she wishes to remain with you both. Be supportive about assisting with CVs etc but if you are serious you need to be firm.

    hamsterbait posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:05:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 3025 of 4470
    Joined 7/7/2004

    In the PRINTED study in the 90s on education, those who left school early to pioneer were called "PRESUMPTUOUS"

    They assumed that Jehoobie would provide for them in spite of not having a High School Certificate.

    HB

    hamsterbait posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:13:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 3026 of 4470
    Joined 7/7/2004

    Ther was a CO who hammered 1975, who became known for his bitterness after he was put out to pasture.

    A pioneer I knew called on him to say "Hello 'member me?" and got his head ripped off.

    Of course he was utterly in poverty, his wife died during their tour of duty and he ended up with nothing, except minimal social security. No pension.

    The EU ruling on providing pensions for volunteers and members of religious communities, will result in a limit on how many years a Witless can be a special pioneer, CO or DO.

    I know of one case (his widow told me) : They were missionaries, and he nearly died of some horrendous infection. He was left an invalid, and the doctoers advised him to go home. The Branch said that the Society"does not provide financial assistance for those who decide to leave their missionary assignment."

    HB

    roadrunner027 posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:18:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 5 of 5
    Joined 3/20/2004

    Nugget: Thank you for your encouraging advice, that may help if we break up the cost of living including rent because she took over my son's bedroom.

    Hampsterbait: I just continue to be amazed at the society's cold heartedness as opposed to following and showing Jesus' compassion and love.

    F nelly136 posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:37:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 2754 of 3750
    Joined 12/14/2000

    During her 40yr marriage my father in law worked while she pioneered. ..... alimony? divorce settlement?

    depending where you live you want to be careful you dont get stuck with her medical bills too.

    if you divide the hoousehold outgoings between the adults, it may also be an idea to get a list of rental costs for properties in the area as well.

    that way you can show a comparison to how much renting a place costs as opposed to the split.

    the only thing with dividing the costs, it may make her feel like she's got a permanent fixture. she may be physically capable of work now, but can

    you afford to keep her for years if that stops.

    if theres a waiting list for assisted housing of any sort then it may be worth getting her name on it now.

    F AnnOMaly posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:41:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 1223 of 3996
    Joined 8/11/2003

    I know of one case (his widow told me) : They were missionaries, and he nearly died of some horrendous infection. He was left an invalid, and the doctoers advised him to go home. The Branch said that the Society"does not provide financial assistance for those who decide to leave their missionary assignment."

    I know of another case like that back in the 70s. A missionary couple were serving in a poor third world country and the wife contracted malaria with serious complications, leaving her severely debilitated. She needed to get the proper medical care that could be found in their home country. The Branch would not pay for them to come back - they had been given a one way ticket out there to their assignment and that was that - too bad. An aunt had to stump up the cash for their air fare back. The Branch's attitude really upset the family.

    M sir82 posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:45:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 3822 of 8424
    Joined 5/17/2005

    Wait, you think the direction of the money flow should be out of Bethel, and to the publishers?

    <Guffaw>

    Yeah, lots of luck with that.

    That's the thing about the Society - they just point to "Jehovah" and say "See that guy over there? He'll take care of you."

    F Gayle posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 18:49:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 1306 of 4485
    Joined 11/17/2006

    The WTS does not care about your mother-in-law's plight. They would more or less just say, she made her own choice. They would not feel any responsibility.

    M Elsewhere posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:11:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 18151 of 17908
    Joined 2/8/2002

    The WTS will take care of you so long as you are willing to circumnavigate their anus with the tip of your tongue.

    edmond dantes posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:13:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 598 of 1045
    Joined 3/7/2007

    The only suggestion I can put forward is that you try to contact Jah Jireh. This is a charity run by certain brothers operating mainly from the U.k. They open care homes for elderly Jehovah Witnesses but usually with individuals receiving assistance from the state as well, providing they fall into a certain category, needing mostly medical help and care.

    They can be reached via the internet.

    HappyGuy posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 19:27:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 446 of 708
    Joined 11/9/2009

    I was a very zealous JW for 22 years. I was never an elder (never felt the "calling" and hated the bureaucracy) but I was usually thought pretty well of and was influential to a degree. One of the reasons that I left the JW cult was over charitable works, I mean the complete lack of charitable works. I pushed for help for elderly JWs for various reasons several times. By pushed I mean I went to the city overseer the CO, the DO, called Headquarters, went to the quickbuild committee. I asked for various things like special donations being asked for, outright assistance, the quickbuild committee putting on a special project to help elderly people who lost their home, etc.

    The answer was always the same. "We are not a social welfare agency". "Our charitable works are the door to door ministry and nothing else can interfere with that".

    The friction between me and the society got so bad that I was told to stop pushing for help for people on the threat of being disfellowshipped for being insubordinate.

    So, no the WTBTS will not help anyone.

    edmond dantes posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:33:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 599 of 1045
    Joined 3/7/2007

    The Watchtower Org. calls itself a charity but in reality it is a beneficiary of charity. It is a business monster called charity fed by millions of followers who hold the Watchtower in their blind spot.

    This non charity is at the centre of the Watchtower Org. It sits there like some ugly, multi tentacled ,slimy, warty multi faceted creature from a stinking slime pit sucking in the unwary . It reaches out grasping for every bit of coinage it can get its multi feelers around. Taking all unto itself , gorging on human effort and giving nothing in return , at the same time spewing up those who try to clean its very heart.

    It is the broken promise society. Promise after promise after promise broken. The wild dreamings of men evaporated into nothing .

    The worst of it is that all this human effort expended on this organisation through many many decades could have been put to good use and so could its vast income.

    This monster has created a charity vacuum to protect itself .It doesn't have to help out because their brand of warped religion teaches that basically it is wrong to assist materially the sufferings of the World and why because they suppose the World is a lost cause. But what they forget is that they themselves are part of the World whether they like it or not.

    straightshooter posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 20:54:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 361 of 1914
    Joined 6/30/2009

    I have known of some brothers and sisters who truly cared for the elderly ones. Most of the time, they were elderly themselves.

    The WTS always emphasizes the need for immediate family relatives to care for one another. If no family relative exists that can help, then the elderly ones need to look to the government for assistance. If that is not possible, then the congregation suppose to help. But the JWs are nothing like the Mormans who helped my former Morman neighbors who were financially broke.

    straightshooter posted Tue, 19 Jan 2010 21:01:00 GMT(1/19/2010)

    Post 362 of 1914
    Joined 6/30/2009

    Another reason I think that congregations are hesitate to help those in need is because of a letter read several years ago from the WTS about being extremely cautious of those asking for financial relief. That there are ones who are scamming the congregations for help when they can either find work or get help from the government. If they can't get help from the government, then why not? Does the government know something about the individuals that the congregation members do not?

    Yes being within the congregation with a financial need can be a cold, cold place.

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