Occult vs. Cult

Occult = "The term is also used as a label given to a number of magical organisations or orders, the teachings and practices taught by them, and to a large body of current and historical literature and spiritual philosophy related to this subject ." - Wikipedia

Cult = "Scholars and non-academic researchers who use the term do so from explicitly critical perspectives which focus on the relationship between cult groups and the individual people who join them. These perspectives share the assumption that some form of coercive persuasion or mind control is used to recruit and maintain members by suppressing their ability to reason, think critically, and make choices in their own best interest." - Taken out of context, just as the WBTS do.  Source - Wikipedia

Now, let's get to the root of why I created this thread. 

When I first read (late 2008) that the organisation behind the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Watch Tower, Bible & Tract Society (WTBS), were coined as a cult, I dismissed it outright.  I had made up my mind that I was leaving the organisation at that time, therefore it wasn't as if I was brainwashed into thinking that the organisation couldn't possibly be a cult, or was I?

Since fully leaving, I have been having mind break-through's.  This happens to ones like us, especially if the teachings of the WBTS were embedded from birth.  As our minds have broken free, some of the teachings swirl around in our subconscious and sometimes seep into our conscious mind.  

As I said, I have been having break-through's, or flashbacks if you will.  Today, I remembered various (notice the plural) talks given by elders in relation to cults.  What surprised me though, was that I remembered that when the elder mentioned the word "cult", he also mentioned the word "occult" within the same sentence or paragraph.

Why do this?  Both words may sound alike, but sounding and being are two very distinct things.  As I have detailed above, "cult" & "occult" share two very seperate labels.

I haven't done any research into this coincidence.  Maybe it's just that, a coincidence.  I do find it strange though, that even though I hated the WBTS, I still got angry at the fact that it was being called a cult, for (and here's the crux of this thread) "the Jehovah's Witnesses weren't demon possessed".

Ah, there you have it.  By mentioning these two words; words that sound alike, our mind, understood the two to be inseparable.

I spoke with King Agag today about this and he to remembers that both "cult" & "occult" were used together during talks.  Do any of you remember this also?  Are there any other words that they, the cult, also known as the WBTS, used/use?

I am sure there is a psychological term used to describe this form of mind control, does anyone know what it is?  I recently ordered the book, Combating Cult Mind Control: The Number 1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue and Recovery from Destructive Cults, by Steven Hassan (notice how he put "The Number 1 Best-selling Guide..." in the books title....this guy is clever as that's a form of mind-control right there!) and can't wait to read it.

Kind regards
RAB

Have a very Merry Christmas and an exceedingly good New Year!

Thanks, God_Delusion.. interesting subject, and you make some good points.

From the Online Etymological Dictionary (one of my fav sites.. the etymology of words fascinates me)

occult

1530s, "secret, not divulged," from L. occultus "hidden, concealed, secret," pp. of occulere "cover over, conceal," from ob "over" + a verb related to celare "to hide," from PIE base *kel- (see cell). Meaning "not apprehended by the mind, beyond the range of understanding" is from 1540s. The association with the supernatural sciences (magic, alchemy, astrology, etc.) dates from 1630s.

cult

1617, "worship," also "a particular form of worship," from Fr. culte, from L. cultus "care, cultivation, worship," originally "tended, cultivated," pp. of colere "to till" (see colony). Rare after 17c.; revived mid-19c. with reference to ancient or primitive rituals. Meaning "devotion to a person or thing" is from 1829.

As you can see, there is no relationship between the two words at all. Thinking back, I do recall similar manipulation of other words, both in WTB$ publications and from the platform, although no examples come to mind right now.. (I've been 'out' for 25 years) Some quick searching via google has not turned up a term to describe this kind of thought control, though I'm sure there would be one.. maybe somebody else would know..

On a more mundane level, concerning occult vs. cult, my Tarot cards and Ouija board are among my most treasured possessions, and I'm quite sure of what a particular cult would have to say about that!

Interesting. 

I personally do not specifically remember the use of the words "cult" and "occult" used together from a JW platform, but it would not surprise me in the slightest, and certainly goes along with their emotionally charged list of forbidden things in their loaded language.

There's a big dif between occult and cult.  Occult simply means hidden.  Cult, currently means abusive religion.  Occult needs not have any connection w religion.  The wt using the two terms together could be a form of deception.  Associated together it would connect the fear that jws have of the occult to the word cult.  Thus, using the word cult would trigger fear.  It could be a ploy designed to help jws deny that they are in a cult.

S

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interesting, I mostly was in french speaking congs, the words are different we say sect when it comes to cults and cult is use to describe worship.

This can be a form of mind control of course using the two words together to cause confusion or implant a "reflex" when you hear it it causes a reaction even if the two words do not mean the same thing. Or it just could be that the JW do not shit and just pull things out of their ass.

the two words are not related in any sense.

Prior to Christianity, mysticism and the occult (two words for basically the same thing) were basically describing seeking that which cannot be seen with the eye.  The Christains turned these two words into meaning something "evil".  It was the Christains who gave the connotation of Satan worship to the word "occult", occultists themselves never thought it meant that.

The word cult of course in modern times means a form of worship characterized by undue devotion to a person, group or thing.

The WTBTS is well known for misusing words in order to confuse and control the mind.

Or it just could be that the JW do not shit and just pull things out of their ass.

Yeah, I'm going to go with that.
"Hanlon's Razor:"

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

MAYBE if someone finds it in print, but even that might just be a really dense writer.

[inkling]

As I said, I have been having break-through's, or flashbacks if you will.  Today, I remembered various (notice the plural) talks given by elders in relation to cults.  What surprised me though, was that I remembered that when the elder mentioned the word "cult", he also mentioned the word "occult" within the same sentence or paragraph.

Why do this?  Both words may sound alike, but sounding and being are two very distinct things.  As I have detailed above, "cult" & "occult" share two very seperate labels.

I haven't done any research into this coincidence.  Maybe it's just that, a coincidence.  I do find it strange though, that even though I hated the WBTS, I still got angry at the fact that it was being called a cult, for (and here's the crux of this thread) "the Jehovah's Witnesses weren't demon possessed".

Ah, there you have it.  By mentioning these two words; words that sound alike, our mind, understood the two to be inseparable.

I have to agree with the quote from inkling on this one:

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

The GB of Jehovah's Witnesses are exceedingly stupid. Their malice comes from worshiping YHWH with CYA in mind (cover your ass).  

As far as these two terms, I asked my mom this when I was 5 or 6 or something like that. She said that the two words were different and that the (stupid, not malicious) elder simply got the two words mixed up in his head.

I have heard this mistake several times. As an adult, I would bring it up whenever it was done, and point out that difference.

The fact is, its most frequently understood from definition #1...

JW's are not of the occult. They are A cult. (not THE cult... sorry, small John 1:1 joke there) Any elder who gets that wrong is just showing off the excellent quality of leaders JW's are attracting these days.

Here is one, but it could be read simply as a claim that some cult leaders and also into the occult:

WT 11/1/84:

Not to be overlooked, then, as one of the reasons for the stepped-up violence in our critical times is this increased demonic influence. One of its manifestations is the growing interest and involvement in the occult and various spiritistic practices. When you read of people who senselessly kill beloved family members or friends because they heard “voices” ordering them to do so, or when cult leaders order the horrible murder of innocent victims, it ought not be surprising also to read that the assailants were practicing Satanists or in some definite way were delving into the occult.—Deuteronomy 18:10-13; Galatians 5:19-21.

Here is another...

I think the confusion is from the term "satanic cult" becuase that implies BOTH words.

g89 10/22:

"Coven members also try to remain anonymous and unknown to law-enforcement officials. “They believe,” said one source, “their evil criminal acts will not be rewarded by Satan if they are identified and prosecuted by authorities.” Thus, it is often by mere chance that a satanic cult is identified as being the perpetrator of a crime. It has only been in recent years that some law-enforcement agencies have come to identify telltale signs left at the scene of fatal crimes with signal occult involvement—for example, pages of a Bible upside-down with crosses drawn in the dirt nearby or the number 666 etched with the blood of the victim."

Also, semantics is the LEAST of this article's problem.

[inkling]

Here is the rest of that article...

Stuff like this is appropreate reading for kids, but Harry Potter isn't???

(keeping in mind that there is no reason to think that the sort of "santanic cult" stuff this article is referencing is anything more than urban legend. When these "reports" are looked into, there is no evidance to backup the fantastical and paranoid stories surrounding the crime, if there even is one.)

=======

*** g89 10/22 pp. 2-5 A Deadly, Growing Menace ***

A Deadly, Growing Menace

Satanism, or Devil worship, is on the increase, featuring animal and human sacrifice, sexual molestation, and other criminal acts. What do Satanists believe? And why does their religion have such appeal? Awake! answers these questions and also unmasks the person behind this frightful religion.

DO YOU grow faint from horror at the thought of adult humans stalking other humans and then, like hungry lions, killing their prey, drinking their blood, eating their heart and other body parts—all in the name of religion?


Does it make you shudder to think of mothers and fathers offering their own children to be sexually molested by others, finally to be slaughtered on an altar before all onlookers for religious gratification?


Does it baffle you to think of men having sexual relations with corpses in funeral parlors to please a spirit creature they think is divine?

Does it numb your emotions when you read of young children killing their parents and then mutilating the bodies without remorse or compunction—all to make the Devil happy?


Do you shake your head in utter disbelief at those who would dig into graves, stealing heads and dismembering finger joints so they can be worn in religious ceremonies?


What do you think of a religion that advocates that their 13- to 25-year-old female members be used for breeding purposes so their babies can be offered up in bloodletting sacrifices?

‘What will moviemakers think up next?’ you may be asking as you read this. ‘After all, it’s only make-believe,’ you may say. Ah, but is it?
What you have just read is real! It is not the figment of a screenwriter’s imagination. The events may have happened in your own town. If they have not already, there are growing fears that they will.


The religion that embraces as a part of its ceremonies the sacrificing of both animals and humans, the molesting of children, the rape of adolescent virgins, sexual promiscuity, and other such activities is called Satanism, or Devil worship. So bizarre, so apart from the norm, are the practices of Satanism that many officials and citizens alike refuse to believe that people do these things as part of their worship.

The cult of Satanism, which only a few years ago had a relatively small following, has become a growing, deadly menace. “Satanism is the cult of the ’80’s,” reported one San Francisco police officer. “Satanism is part of Australia’s organised crime,” said one of that country’s leading crime experts. “I estimate it has a hard core of 20,000 followers throughout Australia, actively involved in Satan worship, sexual orgies, the sacrifice of animals and perhaps even human beings. I believe this movement is also behind the list of missing children and is heavily into drugs and the desecration of cemeteries.”


Satanic cult groups are usually organized into covens, consisting of from 9 to 13 members each—perhaps more, depending on circumstances. Authorities estimate that in the United States, there were approximately 10,000 covens in 1946; 48,000 by 1976; and 135,000 by 1985. How many of these covens are nonviolent and who try to distance themselves from those that are not is not known. According to the March 7, 1986, National Catholic Reporter, “there are 150 active covens” in the city of El Paso, Texas, “with 2,000 satanists of all ages.” And the Pennsylvania State Police Bulletin reports: “Satanism is on the rise in America. Hardly a day passes without reports of violent acts conducted by Satanists.”


Moreover, Satanism boasts a membership made up of people from respected professions of the world—doctors, lawyers, businessmen, policemen, nuns, priests, housewives, and military personnel. However, with dramatic results, new members have been recruited from high schools and college campuses around the world. Therefore, in many places today, teenage groups make up the majority of coven members.


The New Zealand Herald of August 26, 1988, reported: “Teenagers as young as 14 were being lured into the world of Satanism.” Said one Canadian official: “The kids who are . . . dabbling in Satanism are just as much of a threat as the more hard-core (Satanists).”


Reporting on the many youths serving time in a Canadian detention center, one employee said: “I’m amazed at how many of these kids are Satanists. They tattoo Satanic symbols on themselves, they conduct rituals, they actually believe in the devil.”


An 18-year-old female inmate agreed that Satanism is very popular with her peers. One Canadian youth admitted that he belonged to a 400-member Satanic cult operating in Alberta. “Teenage devil-worshippers should not be dismissed lightly,” said one Canadian expert on crime.
Members of the cult make a strong lifetime commitment to the group, which includes a strict vow of secrecy. “Members are not allowed to disassociate themselves from the group after having been exposed to their various criminal activities,” reports The National Sheriff. “A member breaking the code of secrecy places his life and the lives of his family in serious jeopardy,” the magazine added. “[They] are programmed not to tell,” said one Chicago authority. “If they do, they are programmed to kill themselves.”


Coven members also try to remain anonymous and unknown to law-enforcement officials. “They believe,” said one source, “their evil criminal acts will not be rewarded by Satan if they are identified and prosecuted by authorities.” Thus, it is often by mere chance that a satanic cult is identified as being the perpetrator of a crime. It has only been in recent years that some law-enforcement agencies have come to identify telltale signs left at the scene of fatal crimes with signal occult involvement—for example, pages of a Bible upside-down with crosses drawn in the dirt nearby or the number 666 etched with the blood of the victim.


Why, though, the use of violence in the name of their religion? Consider some shocking reasons in the next article.


[Box on page 3]

Hard to Believe—But True

 “Bulletin,” a publication of the missing persons unit of the Pennsylvania State Police, reports: “Investigators may find it difficult to believe the strange and bizarre tales of criminal acts being committed by persons wearing priestly robes and adorned with symbols of the devil.”
  Yet, according to the Bulletin: “Hardly a day passes without reports of violent acts conducted by satanists. Across the country law enforcement organizations are receiving reports of homicide, mayhem, assault, suicide, child abuse and animal mutilations that are linked with the satanic cult.”

*shaking head*

This I never caught in all my years in the borg. This is a definite attempt to distance themselves from cults by linking them to Satanism.

So you see, the WBTS Mind Control Movement rolls on.  I never believed for one minute that the WBTS did this out of stupidicy.  They run a billion $ corporation.  You don't build that up using idiots, but build it up using idiots.

If you want to have your eyes REALLY opened do a proper study of propaganda, the science of propaganda.  Yes, it is a science.  Read up on its techniques, the use of words and ideas, read examples of good propaganda.   This material is pretty easy to find. Only stay off of wikipedia and get some good books on the subject.

Then take a random sampling of WTBTS publications including WT mags, Awake, Kingdom Minstry, various tuesday night study books, and the books meant just for the elders, ministerial servants, pioneers, etc.

Utilizing propaganda to such a degree that you control the though processes of millions of people is not an easy task, it is not a job for idiots or amateurs, it takes skill, planning, and dedication.

No, the GB are not idiots, they are part of an organization that is very skilled at the use of propaganda and brainwashing.

Don't take my word for it, learn something about the science of propaganda and see for yourself.

No, the GB are not idiots, they are part of an organization that is very skilled at the use of propaganda and brainwashing.

Hmmm... This implies a cynical knowledge and use of propaganda. Do you really think they THINK they are producing propaganda? If they are not intentionally "going for" propaganda, it can hardy be said they are using the "science of propaganda".

I think they are unknowingly writing propaganda. Some of the stuff ends up by "happy" accident to be effective propaganda, other times it's just weapons-grade stupid that actually makes them look BAD, even to the deeply loyal, which is the opposite of propaganda.

[inkling]

God_Delusion,

If it's any consolation, I didn't conclude JWs were a cult until over twenty years after I left, and that only happened after I thoroughly studied the religion and its history.  Yeah, I knew they were  a false religion and a bunch of liars and hypocrites, but still didn't feel they fit the true definition of a "cult" for two decades.

I was wrong.

Farkel