Deep thoughts: conditional love

So, I know people talk a lot on here about how love is conditional for JWs (ex. as soon as you're not one, you've often lost JW family and friends). In my own situation, many of you have counseled me to get out of my relationship (for those that don't know, I'm not a JW, my partner is). Wouldn't that make my love conditional? I'm just thinking deeply and was wondering what others thought.

Well, I do not believe in unconditional love between partners but I get what you are saying. 

Yes, if you left your partner simply because of the religion, it would be conditional love. 

Thanks Robdar.

Others, no response? Am I being too deep? Too complicated? Or...too boring!?!

You are right, it would be conditional love.   This is a heavy topic for a Friday afternoon-lol!

"Unconditional love is a term that means to love someone regardless of one's actions or beliefs. "  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_love

From what you've told us here your love for this man seems to be unconditional.  You're willing to be very accommodating of his beliefs to a point that it infringes on your own beliefs.  Having him be likewise to you would be unconditional love.  If he keeps bringing up conditions that hamper him loving you that is conditional love.

Wouldn't that make my love conditional?

I disagree.  If you left, it would *not* be simply because of a belief he has or a behavior or habit, but, rather because of the control and restsrictions that he puts on you because of those beliefs.  And his refusal to let you have your own beliefs and to respect your right to act upon your own desires and beliefs.

And I personally believe that his beliefs are false to begin with.

The love may or may not still be there.  But do you really want to start a life with someone, and possibly have children with, someone who is so utterly controlling?

There is loving unconditionally; and then there is submitting to a control freak.

-Aude.

we thats true, but who says life is easy. you can be a martar in a relationship if you want. having been where you are, and still involved, i stand by my suggestion. you can be the better person and still be miserable for sure. my thouhts are to cut your losses and i also helps me to get it "off my chest". i see recurring themes in your posts and if you think that its ever gonna change, you maybe wrong. i love my wife more then anything. i can't change my situation now. i am in too deep. i understand you have a child with your boyfiend and that complicates the matter. and of course theres the whole love thing as well. if being "right" and unconditional is enough than god bless you. but it a long road and i dont envy you.. or me..

I don't doubt what you've ever said KB, and I wasn't thinking of this in regards to the advice everyone has shared with me. It just more or less occured to be today. Like, how could I complain about their lack of unconditional love if I wasn't practicing it. But maybe you guys are right. I mean, I wouldn't say a woman that left her abusive husband was practicing conditional love. Hmmm...

Unconditional love does not exist.  People mistakenly speak of conditional love when they mean fickle love.  All love is conditional, not all love is fickle.  I could fill a volume with this discussion, but that's the crux of the matter.

: marked by lack of steadfastness, constancy, or stability : given to erratic changeableness

I get the difference between unconditional and fickle, and see your point, but why don't you think unconditional love exists, JD?

I get the difference between unconditional and fickle, and see your point, but why don't you think unconditional love exists, JD?

Follow it to the logical conclusion.  If unconditional love exists, it means that no matter who or what the object is or becomes, it gets love.  That cheapens the whole concept of love because love becomes not a compliment, since it has nothing to do with the object of the love, but rather a mental condition of the person expressing the love, which can only be seen as blind and delusional at best.

If someone rapes, pillages, burns, abuses, beats, cheats, steals, hordes, lies, and generaly makes an all out effort to make everyone's life miserable, someone giving such  person unconditional love is not right in the head.  In fact, I contend that no person would express love in that situation.  It's simply not reasonable.

All love is conditional, not all love is fickle.

Very well said John.

om

I don't remember if you said your partner is a jw or was raised a jw and is trying to get back in which puts him in a bit of a different category than jw since he would not be your partner at present - unless you're married and that's what you mean by partner.  If you're not married and are living together for him to get re-instated he needs to either marry you or break up with you.  If you were never a jw and lets say you get married, most jws won't view you as they view ex members and many may show extra affection towards you for you to take interest in wts religion.  Your then husband may not change nor is it necessary that he will be something that he is not at present but people change in wts religion and out so if you stay with him you have same chances for a happy marriage as anyone else all depending on your partner.  Now, if you make yourself known to other jws as knowing wts BS history and their false teachings you will be viewed as an opposer and they won't invite you guys for get-togethers and social activities which will put your partner in an akward place.  It may be better to tell your partner now what you know about wts than get married and deal with it some time later.  Conditional love is usually shown within their ranks to one another as a general rule, you're not being a jw will be detroyed according to wts teachings thus they won't shun you obviously but may even argue with you about what you say about wts which they wouldn't ever do with most of us exjw.  So it is complicated as you have to real think about what your life may be if he becomes a jw and wants to continue as one acceptable to wts. 

Most relationships are conditional to some point but when we talk about jws having conditional love or being conditional friends it is different in that jws have to give their alledgence to their leaders and anyone questioning the leaders will become an outcast.

Hm...I once told my JW mom that I loved my children unconditionally, that's why I didn't force them to be Witnesses, as had been done to me.

She said, "The Bible says love is conditional...it's conditional on our obedience to Jehovah."

I find that most Witnesses I've talked to don't believe God loves anyone unconditionally, so they don't have to display that either.

If you love your wife, why wouldn't you stay with her regardless of her religious beliefs?

Unconditional love does not exist.

Nor should it, in a species with a set of morals.

People often confuse other things for unconditional love:  codependence, fear of change, lack of initiative to do what's in one's best interests, unwillingness to cut one's losses [out of ego, embarrassment for having made a wrong choice, or a desire to maintain a relationship for reasons other than love].

Word it a different way, would you love him unconditionally if he were physicaly abusive?

Wouldn't your love be conditional if you refused to continue a relationship with such a person?

I agree with John Doe

Maybe I would define words a bit differently: to me, love is neither conditional nor unconditional: it just happens, where, when, and as long as it does -- or not. As an emotion it's the least "principled" or "moral" thing you can think of. Eva Braun probably loved Adolf Hitler truly at some point. And without emotion it is simply not there. Nice as they may sound, "love your neighbour," "love your enemies" or "love each other" are at best subversions, at worst hijackings of love.

"If you pressed me to say why I loved him, I feel that it cannot be expressed, except by replying, because it was him and because it was me." (Montaigne)

Now the conditional/unconditional dilemma applies better to relationships, which is actually what you're talking about. For a thousand reasons you may not get into, or step out of a relationship with someone you do love. Or live with someone you don't really love. From this standpoint, an unconditional relationship may be more likely to become a loveless one. Bets are it is already going this way if the word "unconditional" comes to your mind. [N.B.: I'm not referring to greenie's situation here since the "(un)conditional" issue was suggested by other people's comments.]

Another French quote by Prévert (fro M. Carné's movie Les enfants du Paradis): "Would all the people who live together love each other, the earth would be as bright as the sun."

My love for my husband is conditional.  If he was physically violent towards me or my children, I would leave him.

Some conditions are worthy.