"Stone the infidels", erm ... I mean apologists (IMPORTANT)

I've noticed a trend lately which is becoming annoying and is definitely something we want to address and put a stop to.

We'll see topics or get PMs about some 'evil poster' that is making abusive posts or harrassing someone, driving people from the forum, yada yada and so we look ... and find nothing. We ask for examples of their behavior where they have harrassed people and it goes rather quiet. In fact, we find just the opposite - people being respectful and in return getting abusive posts directed towards them.

And why the hostility?

Because they currently hold a belief that most other people on here did at some point and try to defend the WTS or even just point out that some of the claims made about them don't appear to have merit.

It seems some people cannot cope with people having opinions other than their own but that is precisely what an internet discussion forum is all about. That is what this site is, not your own personal cliche.

I've seen several examples over the last week where people start quoting certain things as gospel truth such as "so and so excused child abuse" or "so and so harassed or attacked xyz" and it simply WASN'T the case. Yes, people reacted as though that is what happened ... but it didn't.

What invariably happens then is that people start reacting to the reactions and assuming things being claimed are based on fact rather than a few people not being able to cope with others holding differing opinions than their own.

We then get the calls for moderators to "do something" yada yada. Strange that at other times we get people bleating on about freedom of speech for all manner of idiotic reasons and yet this is suddenly unimportant when, god forbid, someone just has a differing viewpoint and wants to discuss things!

Other examples of the paranoid idiocy is when a new poster makes a first post and they are immediately attacked and labeled as a troll or identified as some other poster (that they have previously driven off) because they spell a word wrong or whatever.

Well, I indend to do something about all this. Anyone carrying on this rediculous nonsense will have their account restricted or deleted. I'm sure you know who you are so take this as warning that you cease and desist with this behavior as it is not welcome here.

Let me make this quite clear right now so there is no misunderstanding - this paranoid, witch-hunt mentality is not going to be tolerated.

We try to moderate the forum in an objective fashion. While I personally do not agree with some people's beliefs or opinions, while they abide by the forum rules they are allowed to post here. How you express yourself is sometimes more important than what you have to say - if we believed differently then we would be bad moderators and just want a site filled with mini-me's (which we don't).

For everyone who DOES engage in respectful discussions, whatever opinion you gold - thank you ... please continue.

NOTE: If anyone genuinely comes across any harassment or believes they are being treated unfairly by others then please report it.

Thanx Simon.

As a mod, it would be helpful when such accusations are made - and the frequency of that has been more often lately - to please point out the violations specifically, so that it can be looked at quickly. I, and I assume all the other mods, are not interested in playing detective with these accusations. Pointing specifically to the violation would make it easier to do our job.

Jeff

saved for future bttt

i think in particular the comments where a specific person is accused of being someone else is destructive. im very happy this issue is brought to attention.

First of all, I hope I have not engaged in this, I will try to be mindful of this in the future if I have. I do agree with the points here....

I have been tempted on several occasions over the last month to start a thread approximating this, but I am not a mod, so I didn't. What gets me upset is when some posters here (who I typically respect) try and play detective that a new poster must be a long time JW apologist under a new name...

That is so silly.

Can I assume, (if its ok to ask) that I can challenge freely the content of any post, so long as there is no attack of the poster specifically?

I ask this because on one of Angel Eyes posts, there was a point of disagreement as to her intent and meaning on her initial statements. I still read into it what I did, but others tried to see a different point of view, which I respect, though I disagreed with. I used that post as an opportunity to comment on what I perceive to be a general self righteous attitude among Jehovah's Witnesses, and even AE.

I was pretty straightforward, but I didn't think I did more then debate the subject and thoughts she started. I certainly didn't attack her personally.

Believe it or not, I prefer JW's to come here and debate their ideas. I think those that try to defend Jehovah's Witness dogma do more to help show the idiodicy of it. And I do think it detracts when a newbie has to "show their ID" to long timers. I hate that! Not our job.

Anyway, thanks for letting me express myself on this.

Why was Elsewhere's recent thread about Glenn Beck closed?

Can I assume, (if its ok to ask) that I can challenge freely the content of any post, so long as there is no attack of the poster specifically?

Yes, debate about what people say is welcome ... where some go wrong is that they think calling people names somehow then means they win the argument or don't have to engage in debate (which they don't of course, but if they don't they should just keep quiet).

What I don't want is the people who are maybe just too lazy or too dumb to debate properly to stifle the proper debate that should happen and be available to everyone else.

Why was Elsewhere's recent thread about Glenn Beck closed?

Because it was just libelous clap-trap. Why was it even made on this site? Why are you making such an issue of it? What has it got at all to do with this topic? Do you think that makes you look super clever or something?

Read the terms and conditions and posting guidelines.

I agree. While the apologists are often annoying, one thing that I find carries over from the JW's is the whole persecution complex. It's drives me nuts when some of the recent apologists claim persecution and verbal abuse when there is none, it's even worse when claimed by us exjw's. Do the apologists almost always stick there heads in the sand when given valid evidence contrary to their beliefs? Yep. So did we once, that's what makes it a cult and a problem. The inability to reason correctly. Cognitive dissonance. Avoiding "independent thinking". They are GOING TO DO THIS. Some learn ,some don't, but that's the nature of the beast.  And expecting them to change to fit what we want is pretty much the flip side of the same coin.

I agree avishai.

I think some think that to win a debate the other person has to say "yes, you're right, I was wrong after all" and well, this is the internet ... that probably isn't going to happen any time soon.

What normally happens is that you know you made your point well and know that anyone reading will consider your position valid and the other side proven false and that should be enough. It's not about convincing them, it's about convincing everyone else that is going to read it.

I don't know why people with a valid argument post things that then makes them look like the closed-minded jerk and the other side as the voice of reason.

I think All Time Jeff is Reinna. 

Thanx for this Simon. This needed aired, and in front of Admin

"I'm Brian Reinna and so's my wife"

I KNEW IT!  I KNEW IT!! 

(throws snowball at Simon)

Yes, debate about what people say is welcome ... where some go wrong is that they think calling people names somehow then means they win the argument or don't have to engage in debate (which they don't of course, but if they don't they should just keep quiet).

Thanks Simon.

If I might, I think it very effective when a JW says something we disagree with or know is wrong to simply demonstrate why it is wrong.

Speaking for myself, there were many years in my life where I sounded just like some "apologists" on the board that seem to irritate us. Truthfully, I didn't know any better.

It is my opinion that as we progress in the information age, and more JW's are bound to look here, that a more mature way of dealing with JW dogma, as well as our own personal experiences, is a great way to go.

Having said that, I appreciate  the posters I have become "buddies" with on this board, even if I disagree with some of them at times.

Peace!

Shamus, you got me. I am indeed the one whose name will not be mentioned....

ATJ,

You can just assume I am any troll you want.  I am an attention whore at it's best.  (and should be banned asap)

And why the hostility?

Because they currently hold a belief that most other people on here did at some point and try to

defend the WTS or even just point out that some of the claims made about them don't appear to have merit.

Thank you Simon, and thank you again.

I really cant understand why some have such a preoccupation with "trolls".

It's like "trolls" have a contagious desease we can  catch over the 'net,  so all must be warned and

the"trolls" thrown off the site.

What happened to "kindness" and "benefit of the doubt".

yesidid

The irony is of course that the behaviour people show when they are on 'troll patrol' is exactly what trolls aim for. So they have already lost that battle.

I just have to interject: The Stoned Infidels would be a righteous band name.  Especially if the band was made up of apostates.