Need help: JW friend links every NT teaching to 144,000 only

You know what I mean:  Every time she reads a passage in the NT, she instantly applies it to the 144,000 chosen anointed ones.  Even though there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to make that connection.  I have even asked how her gurus have made that connection BIBLICALLY.  She admits that she can't really tell me BIBLICALLY, because you just have to study everything JWs teach and then it becomes so apparent.....

  I truly think if I could somehow come up with something she could understand, that would just be glaring about how ridiculous it is to think that the 144,000 in Rev. are the ones spoken to in the NT, that it might break through the mind control.  That is the concept that keeps her tied down.  Nothing else seems to matter, we just keep coming back to that.

  I can't really find anything that deals directly with that problem.  Someone who is so tied up in the anointed, chosen, holy ones of the NT being the 144,000.  Yes, they deal with a lot of other aspects.  But I can't seem to get those to make sense, without dealing first with the fact that the ones spoken to in the NT just might be CHRISTIANS who follow Christ in general, and not an elite group of special Christians.

  I was hoping someone might be able to send me some ideas to help address this.  Also, she is wanting to talk to me about the 1914 issue (when Jesus returned and only the JWs knew it).  I have a lot of info. on that as well, but was wondering if you have any really good things I could ask.

Thanks for any help you can give me!

Whyizit (so frustrating!)  But I knew that it would be going in!

Then where is she mentioned in the Bible?  Roamns 8 may be a good chapter.  You are either 'in union with Christ" - NWT or not.  There is not third option.  If "in union" you are annointed.  If not, death and godlessness follows.

Ask her why is it that every number used in Rev. is a symbolic one except the 144k?

Why is it that Jesus and the apostles never mentioned that number and why is it that they

never mentioned about living on earth as the main hope for mankind.

Jesus mentioned in John 10 about the other "sheep" and as time went on it was made clear

they were the Gentiles that accepted Jesus and not the great crowd found in Rev.

Good luck in dealing with them.

It's so much easier reasoning with a mule than trying to reason with a JW.

Was one for 32 years

This got me to thinking:

^{John 1:12} Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— ¹³children born not of natural descent,^[c] nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Note it doesn't say to all 144,000 who received Him, it just says to all.

Sylvia

For me the most compelling response I have used is to center on the 1918-1919 "selection" of the FDS. Ask her to show you what teaching unique to JWs was "proper food" being dispensed in 1918. I use 9 points all central doctrinal things.

1     The "Last Days" started in 1799 and the 1800’s were the worst time period of all history

2     That Jesus had begun ruling in 1874

3      That the end was going to come in 1925

4     That Jesus should be prayed to and worshipped as well as Jehovah

5     That the Great Crowd were a heavenly class

6     That birthdays and Christmas were acceptable celebrations and displaying the flag was acceptable

Hi,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. The "little flock" teaching is to stop the masses from believing the bible is written for them.

For me, as a born again believer the bible says that the promises God made to Israel are mine too, not the other way round!

Notice here that once again there is one flock, one body, one household, not two. The Gentiles who believe are united with the Jews who believe in Christ.

Ephesians 2:11-22 (New International Version)

The only possible way to look at the Bible with a Watch Tower Witness is with the book closed. Look at the history of the book and the assumptions used to form the opinions of the book. Look at superstition, ritual, and tradition and how those are used to manipulate vulnerable people.

As a side bar: I like friends who are rational, intelligent, and educated. No Jehovah's Witness I know fits that profile. Get a better grade of friends and life will be better. Don't waste time trying to educate an idiot.

         

Two different groups of Jesuses folowers?

Separate hope for the two groups?

Diferent instructions for the two groups?

And following the right instructions is a matter of death or life?

Dont you think, if this was the case, Jesus would be much more clear about that?

By the way: 144 000 ...

In 1935 we had over 50.000, they all are dead today... still 10.000 partaking today (the number has been increasing ... so more yet to be anounted, right?) ... so there were only some 80.000 christians in the first century from Jerosalem to Rome (they all werte anointed, right?) ?  Historians write about many hundreds of thousands christians by the end of the first century ... maybe even a million  christians ...

So what does you friend thinks abou the numbers??

Albert 

dear allelsefails,

i wud love to have that word document that u have.....

can u also give me a list of different editions of kingdom interlinears and NWT Bibles they have.....

because each time they have a different word somewhere......

i too have a beautiful friend who is a JW....I will do what i am called to do..be the light...

thankyou

you are kind ALLELSEFAILS
 
also I  new and I don't understand a lot of things, as the forum works, for example, me after I have participated a post I don't succeed in finding after some days  to see again. how do I have to do for finding mine and other participated post?

thank very much

hugs

Great document allelsefails, and all thoer own writings!!!

The whole doctrine of great crowd and 144,000 is very difficult for a JW to prove. A couple of points.

Read Rev 14 and the number 144,000 is figurative. http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/144000.htm

The Other Sheep actually join the little flock to become one flock. http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/greatcrowd.htm 

However, be aware that JWs are not in it for the doctrine, and a discussion on doctrine is not likely to get her to admit the GB are not directed by God.

Good topic; I'm currently researching the whole mediator teaching of JWs that Christ's covenant only applies to the 144,000 and the rest of us must simply be in good standing at the kingdom hall or be SOL.  None of the scriptures quoted (insight book) to support this teaching  say anything about the new covenant only consisting of the 144K.  The scriptures point out that  those of the new convenant are those who follow Christ and God. 

Not only that, but in recent WT publications the org has been diminishing the importance of the annointed. Where does this illogical connection 144K = new covenant come from anyway?