Info For Newbies and Current Jehovah's Witnesses! Please Read!

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    mentallyfree31 posted Mon, 24 May 2010 18:20:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 212 of 691
    Joined 2/14/2010

    (Last week, this was a post I made on another person's thread. I tweaked it a bit, and am giving it it's own thread. Hope you enjoy!)

    Are you a newbie to the forum? Perhaps you have been reading, but haven't jumped in yet and started posting. Are you convinced that your beliefs as a Jehovah's Witness are right and the rest of the world is wrong? I invite you to consider the following:

    Realize that you will not be destroyed at Armageddon for researching your religion. Move past the fear. Things are either true or false. If something is true, you can lay all the evidence on the table and consider all of it. It will still be true. If, upon closer observation, the evidence does not support the fact that something is true, then it can't be true. It's just that simple. Examinations are not to be feared when something is true. Example: Gravity is real. We can do all the research that we like on the subject of gravity. We could even read books that attempt to disprove gravity or that ridiculously claim that gravity is not real. When we finish the research - gravity is still real. Hold your mobile phone up and let go of it - it WILL fall to the floor.

    (1) When was Jerusalem destroyed? Either Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE or 587 BCE. It has to be one or the other. It cannot be both. You need to know the truth. Because if 607 BCE is wrong, then so is 1914 and 1918 and 1919. Very simple.

    Some have claimed that we cannot trust secular dates and research because they are not inspired by God. Let me point out this fact: WITHOUT secular reserach, there is NO POSSIBLE WAY that we can determine the date of the destruction of Jerusalem, because the Bible does not give a date. So if we cannot trust secular research, then we can DEFINITELY discard the date of 607 BCE. And without secular research, we also cannot determine when the United States established independence, because it happened in the 1700's and none of us were alive then.

    If you have the one and only true religion, looking at hard facts will not change the one and only true religion. Let me remind you that if Jehovah's Witnesses have the only true religion, honest research will only convince more fully that you are right. If you are right, research will only reveal MORE things that will prove that you are right. Go to the library and look up these terms: Jerusalem, Israel, Jews, Zedekiah & Nebechadnezzar. Scan the articles until you see the section talking about the destruction of Jerusalem. What does it say? When did it happen? Look through every encyclopedia they have if you have time. If you can, go to a large library in a larger city. Check it out for youself. Check EVERY encyclopedia they have. Facts are facts. The destruction of Jerusalem was a pretty big deal in history. It is WELL DOCUMENTED. I know when the Civil War happened in my country. Similarly, the Jews know when their city of Jerusalem was destroyed. Case closed.

    (2) Either Jesus chose this organization in 1919 or he didn't. Why would Jesus have chosen this organization? If Jesus chose an organization, would its members have to be following the scriptures, and spreading the truth with others? Or could they be believing things that weren't true, and preaching false prophecies and beliefs to others? If christams and birthdays are so wrong, how could Jesus approve of them in 1919 and consider these people so righteous that he would appoint them over all his affairs on earth? With Jehovah, there is not the variation of a turning of a shadow - so how could something be okay in 1919 but a disfellowshipping offense in 2010? Why would Jehovah approve of it then, but destroy a person at Armageddon for doing it now?

    (3) Next - what was this organization teaching in 1919? Do you know? Can you make a list of the 40 or so common teachings that they were preaching to others? Are you aware that if people believed today what those brothers believed in 1919, they would be disfellowshipped and destroyed at Armageddon? How did Charles Taze Russel rise to heaven in 1918 if most of the things he believed were false? Very simple. Think about it.

    (4) 7 million Witnesses, wow that's a lot. That's impressive. But there are 12 million mormons, who are ready to die for their belief just like you are because they are convinced they have the only truth. There are over 1 billion muslims, some estimate as many as 1.5 billion. To them Allah is REAL. They are ready to die for him. Does this mean he is real? Of course not.

    (5) If you think that you are "in the truth" presently, then what was Charles Taze Russell in? What was Rutherford in? They certainly didn't believe the same things that you believe. If what you have is the truth, then Russell and Rutherford died and never knew the truth. Did you know that Russell never knew anything about Jesus becoming king in 1914. Even though he died in 1916. Russell wrote many things about people of the world "being in darkness". He also said that one would be a fool not to accept his "so called truths". But his "truths" were merely the imaginations of somebody's mind. They all failed and every prediction he made never came true. After spending much time reading Russell's writings - I can assure you that the person who was in darkness was Charles Taze Russell himself.

    (6) Is God really going to destroy millions of Chinese children any day now at this "Armageddon"? What did these children do? All they did was being born on the other side of the world, a long way from Brooklyn. They have never heard of a Watchtower organization. They have never heard of Jehovah. Is God really going to slaughter them and leave thier bodies in the streets for the birds to eat? Some suggest that God will not destroy all of these chinese children, because he will read people's hearts. If this is true, then we arrive at a new fact: It is NOT necessary to be a Jehovah's Witness to survive Armageddon. Now there is a dilema: Either a person has to be a Jehovah's Witness to survive Armageddon, or they don't. Which is it? It can only be one way or the other! If Jehovah is gonna read hearts, then we can throw out the "have to be a witness" teaching. Think about it.

    (7) How many people in the bible had to commit to a 6 to 12 month bible study of some book before they could get baptized and accept Jesus? How many of those in the first century in the book of Acts had to join an organization in order to have Jesus' approval? How many in the first century had to shave their beard in order to get baptized? How many in the book of Acts turned in a field service report every month?

    Here's a little humor to ponder: Why did we as JW's shake our heads in wonder when Pentacostals in the south could not wear jeans - but only skirts and dresses. Why did we think that was crazy, but yet at the same time we as JW's were running around clean shaven and couldn't have a beard, even though Jesus had a beard and there is NOTHING in the bible about a christian not being able to have a bible? Does that make sense to you?

    (8) At what point did this organization become the true religion? When did the switch flip so to speak, so that people now needed to leave their church and come join the Watchtower Organization? Was it during Charles Russell's time? This would have been the time when the Bible Students were smoking, celebrating christamas and birthdays, believing and preaching that Jesus returned in 1874, believing and preaching that the anointed were sealed in the late 1800's, teaching that the last days started in 1799, teaching that the battle of armageddon would end in 1914, etc.. Was this when it became the true religion? Or was it later when we discovered that organ transplants were actually cannibalism, and that women should be disfellowshipped if they were raped and didn't scream, and when the organization joined up and became a NGO member of the United Nations? When did it become the truth?

    (9) After considering the above things, it really comes down to this one question: If you were wrong, would you change? Or would you prefer to believe things that are not true?

    People live in fantasy worlds every day. I lived in a fantasy world for many years. I was knocking on people's doors and telling them that Armageddon would be here any day now, because "this generation" that Jesus mentioned was almost up. Then the Society threw out that teaching and completely changed the meaning of that term. So, I was clearly living in a fantasy world, along with everybody that was a Jehovah's Witness from 1951 to 1995. That teaching was never correct. Sure, millions of people taught it all over the world for decades - but it was NEVER true. People at the doors were very smart not to respond and fall for that, because it was a hoax. The joke was truly on us as JWs.

    The subsequent teaching about "this generation" that replaced this one in 1995 was that Jesus meant the "wicked and twisted generation". This was presented as truth, and we had to accept it. But it was false too, because in 2008 this teaching was thrown out as well. What about the new generation teaching in 2008? It too was wrong, because it changed in April 2010. ALL these understandings were actually misunderstandings. They were NEVER true, and God did not reveal these things to anybody. The Holy Spirit did not reveals these wrong teachings to anybody. Some man at a desk in Brooklyn picked up a pen and put this in writing. It had nothing to do with God. That's why the meaning of "this generation" has already changed completely 6 different times. Yes, six times. So that means we were beating on people's doors at 10 AM on Saturday mornings and waking them up sometimes, to tell them that the generation of 1914 is almost up and that they need to come to the kingdom hall so they can get saved..and that they have to believe this because this because this is God's only organization on earth and he reveals the truth to mankind only through this organization. Correct? Go ahead and laugh. It's okay. Honestly, I'm laughing as I write this. :-) But it happened, because I remember doing it..and I did it for many years.

    I love the expression Judge Judy uses here on American TV: If something doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.

    It can be very difficult to admit that one is wrong. I decided that whatever the cost, I want to know THE TRUTH. I decided that even if I didn't like what I discovered, I would rather know the truth than go on believing things that are false. Life is short, and I don't want to spend one more day chasing fairy tales.

    Let go of your fear, if you are lurking out there. If something is true, it will never fear an examination.

    Best of luck to you. And if you are new, welcome to the forum.

    -mentallyfree31-

    lavozsa posted Mon, 24 May 2010 18:31:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 5 of 19
    Joined 5/10/2010

    Awsome Post! I love how you touched on all of the key "hot" topics that the GB tries to guilt people into believing.

    feeling good posted Mon, 24 May 2010 18:36:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 59 of 60
    Joined 11/5/2009

    I feel the same way. I was brainwashed for 15 years of my life.. not no more.

    F AudeSapere posted Mon, 24 May 2010 18:38:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 3522 of 4451
    Joined 2/2/2006

    I read this on the other post and am glad you gave it it's own spotlight.

    This is good info for anyone wanting to ask questions but afraid of the backlash.

    Welcome to JWN!! Looking forward to hear more of your family's unfolding story.

    -Aude Sapere (meaning: Dare to Know; Dare to Have Wisdom/Understanding)

    M flipper posted Mon, 24 May 2010 19:35:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 9688 of 17409
    Joined 3/7/2007

    MENTALLY FREE- Awesome post ! This deserves a bump. You and your brother will make a great one-two punch for this board to expose the mind control of the WT society ! Glad to have you here - thanks for caring enough as an exiting witness to post this ! Helping people to have freedom of mind and speech outside cult mind control captivity is definitely a noble cause ! Peace out, Mr. Flipper

    goldensky posted Mon, 24 May 2010 19:44:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 316 of 428
    Joined 10/2/2009

    Mentallyfree31: your post is just brilliant. I don't see how ANY Witness can read it and continue to be a Witness...

    SAHARA posted Mon, 24 May 2010 20:10:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 22 of 55
    Joined 6/18/2008

    You put into words the exact same things I think about everyday. Great post...

    wannabefree posted Mon, 24 May 2010 20:12:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 171 of 2734
    Joined 4/5/2010

    Thanks. Great information.

    F snowbird posted Mon, 24 May 2010 20:13:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 15274 of 23468
    Joined 5/2/2007

    Awesome!!!

    Syl

    F LongHairGal posted Mon, 24 May 2010 20:34:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 2089 of 4034
    Joined 3/11/2005

    Mentallyfree31,

    Wow, your post is honestly the best post I have read in a very long time!

    You raised a good point in No. 6 about the cliche phrase they love to use about God 'reading people's hearts..' and if this is so, then it is NOT necessary to become a JW to be saved at Armagonnageddum. This poses a dilemma for the religion because it would imply that they are not needed Ha, Ha. Point No. 8 also made me think. Just when did this organization become the 'true' religion, when it was in error every step of the way?

    Your other points are excellent, but points No. 6 and 8 really made me think about it.

    BRAVO.

    mentallyfree31 posted Mon, 24 May 2010 21:48:00 GMT(5/24/2010)

    Post 213 of 691
    Joined 2/14/2010

    LongHairGal - those two points actually came from my brother. They really made me think too.

    It's great to be able to think outside the box and use logical reasoning.

    Thanks to everybody for your comments. Glad you enjoyed it.

    -mentallyfree31-

    mentallyfree31 posted Tue, 25 May 2010 00:44:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 215 of 691
    Joined 2/14/2010

    Flipper - Thanks a lot. The funny part is that Ray Franz had already wrote his book a year or so before my family came in around 1985. This has forever impressed upon me the power of careful research. My BS meter stays on very high alert now.

    -mentallyfree31-

    diamondiiz posted Tue, 25 May 2010 01:00:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 429 of 1522
    Joined 3/15/2009

    I just wanted to add that Russell taught that heavenly ressurrection began in 1878 thus he was ressurected unon his death in 1916 and again in 1918 when Rutherford changed the ressurection date teaching. So we can say that Russell was resurrected twice, once in 1916 and again in 1918

    mentallyfree31 posted Tue, 25 May 2010 01:12:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 217 of 691
    Joined 2/14/2010

    diamondiiz - If I have read this before, I honestly don't remember it. Interesting. I'm glad to know this. The rabbit hole keeps getting deeper and deeper!

    -mentallyfree31-

    fsm posted Tue, 25 May 2010 13:31:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 1 of 2
    Joined 12/30/2009

    Your point on secular history needed to establish the dates the JW use for 607 is such a good point, I had this discussion with my father a long time ago and never thought about that line of reason, in order to establish 607 they needed to accept a secular pre date to arrive at 607, but the issue is why reject secular dates later on in regards to 607...that is such a good point. I always struggled with this argument with him, as he is pretty well versed in history oft hat time

    many thanks

    designs posted Tue, 25 May 2010 13:37:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 1237 of 18822
    Joined 6/17/2009

    You are now Free to rove about the planet

    M undercover posted Tue, 25 May 2010 13:46:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 9437 of 13134
    Joined 9/25/2002

    Good post...good thread...

    Keeping it BTTT

    M leavingwt posted Tue, 25 May 2010 13:49:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 7450 of 14213
    Joined 6/16/2008

    fsm -- Welcome to the forum!

    F shopaholic posted Tue, 25 May 2010 14:02:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 1192 of 1535
    Joined 7/21/2007

    And the choir says 'Amen'.

    #4 was probably one the first things I noticed even as a kid. The Baptists, Catholics and everyone else was just as sure of their God as we were of our Jehovah. I remember thinking that God should just tell everyone who he was and what he wanted and stop the guessing game. Think I was around 10 at the time.

    What's interesting is, if JWs listened to themselves in regular everyday conversation they would realize that something is up with the religion. The other day my sister told me that her son has expressed interest in studying at a university but they never prepared for it. She followed it up with "I hope he prepares for his kids". Yet, five seconds later she's professing that the world is about to end.

    M jambon1 posted Tue, 25 May 2010 17:46:00 GMT(5/25/2010)

    Post 864 of 1009
    Joined 2/7/2006

    Spot on when it comes to all of these points.

    I remember arguing with myself in my mind, at the point when I wasn't ready to exit the JW's. It was mental torture trying to go round & round in circles and knowing that there is no logical answer to these points. It became impossible to live the lifestyle of a JW when I knew in my heart that it was all wrong.

    PS - the point about the Chinese children was something that went round & round in my mind. No matter how individuals tried to soften the matter or make it sound reasonable, the fact remained that I was worshiping a god that was going to literally slaughter billions of decent people. Men, women & children. It's hideous.

    J

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