this weeks watchtower---Please Comment

Unity Identifies True Worship........  Comments on these 3 paragraghs

 (Especially those who believe everything is well)

What is the point in preaching to some-one who is going to die before armageddon. The only people to benefit  being preached to would be those alive at armageddon,  everyone else will be resurrected, won't they?

The spiritual food is based on God's word but at the same time is still not from men?

If I write some literature that is based on Herman Melville's Moby Dick, can I say that it is not from me but Melville himself?

not if they new the trut, even not being baptized or not if u knew the truth you will stay dead no resurrection. but of course jah knows the heart.  thats what they say billions will die.

Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah.

Sounds to me like these guys are saying they are modern day prophets. Makes me shake my head in amazement that anyone would buy into this.

Yep, read between the lines. What problems is the GB addressing?

1) They don't get no respect. No respect at all I tell ya! You will respect my autoritay!

2) Kids (well, people 30 or 35 & under) don't take "the truth" as seriously as the GB would like. They view the congregation as a social club, a place to meet & hang out twice a week. Enduring the mind-numbing meetings for 2 hours is the "cover charge".

        "When two unmarried publishers of different sexes come to the KH for the meetings, it is inappropriate for them to exchange any other information apart from the subjects to be presented at that meetings and apart of speaking about encouraging field service experiences. Talking about trivial matters in the house of Jehovah may lead the individual's mind on the path of sexual misconduct, porneia or even fornication, especially if that individual is young and his spirituality is weak."

                                                                                  WT, october 2012

Kids (well, people 30 or 35 & under) don't take "the truth" as seriously as the GB would like. They view the congregation as a social club, a place to meet & hang out twice a week. Enduring the mind-numbing meetings for 2 hours is the "cover charge".

This is so true, also true is that many go to these meetings out of habit they don't really listen and remember most of what they hear but they go and they go and they think they are pleasing God by going.

The GB must know that today's rank and file are not as devoted as those 30 years ago. They need the rank and file to be devoted to whatever the GB says and that's just not happening as much anymore.

The bORG is fizzling out. Without the totally devoted rank and file, the cash won't be there. They won't be able to keep the propaganda going.

I hope it dies in my lifetime.

LD

So they finally got to that quote, huh?  Notice that they make no mention of holy spirit directing anything, just the Governing Body.  The apostles' letter about circumcision said "the holy spirit and we ourselves", not "we, who alone receive direction from the holy spirit, are telling you".  They didn't view themselves as 'governing' anyone, as Jesus warned them not to act like the rulers of the nations.  Hence why the term 'governing body' does not exist in scripture.  The apostles had authority, but it was never absolute--why else could Paul openly write about publicly rebuking Peter, a fellow apostle, in an OPEN LETTER TO A LOCAL CONGREGATION?  This kind of thing would NEVER happen amongst JWs.  Many don't even know the names of the people on the GB, much less anything about them. 

To say that 'what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah' is to say that 'our literature is to be viewed as equal to scripture, which comes from God'.  'Based on God's Word' is really another way of saying 'IS God's Word' without saying it in a way that is overt enough for an ordinary JW to recognize.  Invoking the term 'God's Word' is a nice way of setting you up for the next sentence.  The idea is that every word in the literature is supported by the Bible, therefore, the literature is from God just as the Bible is. 

I used to think of literature as arrows pointing to the Bible.  I always believed what they said, that the Bible was our final authority.  So for them to say this really undercuts the idea that the literature is a Bible-based 'help' and not a substitute for the Bible.  If reading the Bible alone without the literature means you become spiritually 'darkened', something is clearly wrong with that picture. 

They encourage daily Bible reading, but consider this: the 'daily text', Examining the Scriptures Daily, has one Bible verse for each day of the year, followed by a Watchtower quote that is considerably longer than the Bible verse--and sometimes the Watchtower quotes really do seem randomly chosen and hardly even related to the context of the Bible verse.  By the end of the year, you've read twice as many Watchtower paragraphs as paragraphs from the Bible.  What, then, becomes most important? 

--sd-7

"What is taught is not from men but from Jehovah "

Are they sayin' that Jehovah didn't give them the right info on the generation teachin' the first time around ?

are they passin' the buck on their screw ups to Jehovah ? They claim to be guided by holy spirit, so are they

sayin' this holy spirit sent by God gave them the wrong info?

The more I read this stuff the more frightened I get that people actually believe this group of old men in Brooklyn are the mouthpieces of God. This is delusion, plain and simple. What's next? What's the probability this "Society" will go really toxic?

This spiritual food is based on God’s Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah

Hmm... According to that logic we could say:

All Chrisitian Religions are based on God's Word. Thus, what is taught is not from men but from Jehovah...

No social club?  Is this their wimpy excuse for banning just about everything that provides fun for the witlesses?  They are not allowed to join worldly clubs for "bad associations".  Yet, they are not allowed to have any fun in the congregation--they are always supposed to be "on the clock" as Jehovah's Witlesses.  Doesn't the Filthful and Disgraceful Slavebugger realize that, unless they allow ample recreation and entertainment, the younger people are going to look elsewhere?

The younger dubs at my workplace see the whole thing as a social club. I wonder if this statement will be followed up by counsel from the CO's and and assemblies?

The Watchtower is simply wrong.

In Galatians 2:6, Paul writes: "As for those who seemed to be important-- whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not judge by external appearance-- those men added
nothing to my message."

In Galatians 2:11 ff, we find that certain men sent from Jerusalem by James caused all the trouble in Antioch.

Peter was being a hypocrite and even led Barnabas astray (Gal. 2:12-14).

So Paul didn't follow rulings of a Governing Body.

He opposed what their representative were doing!

Galatians 1:15-20: "But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not
consult any man,  17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.  18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Peter and stayed with him fifteen days.  19 I saw none of the other apostles-- only James, the Lord's brother.  20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie."

Paul complimented the Bereans for checking out everything by the scriptures. He didn't rebuke them for not meekly submitting to his authority of a member of some non-existent "Governing Body." (Acts 17:11)

It's a shit religion and even shitter social club.

As cults go it rocks.

I believe the Oracle was of this opinion until his death (even though he caved to peer pressure outwardly). On this matter we both thoroughly agree!

Here is the talk, narrated by Ray intermittently : http://www.sendspace.com/file/dbzaf1

http://www.perimeno.ca/FF%20and%20Governing%20Body.htm

Was there a Governing Body in the first century? This is the transcript of Fred Franz's September 7, 1975Gilead graduation talk where he argued against the existence of a first century governing body.

Well, what about Jerusalem and the body down there? Later on the account tells us that Barnabas took Paul, or Saul of Tarsus, down to Jerusalem. But they were all afraid of him! And Saul of Tarsus, or Paul, tells us that when he went up there to Jerusalem he saw none of the apostles except Peter, with whom he spent fifteen days, and also, uh, the apostle James. [Note: this is an error, as Galatians 1:18, 19 indicates it was "James the brother of the Lord," not the apostle James.] Those are the only two. And then he went back to Tarsus, and, uh, he continued on his way. Later on, why, Barnabas was sent down there to Antioch, and he hunted up Saul, brought him there, and, uh, they talked in Antioch for quite a while. Paul became a member of the Antioch congregation. And he was one of the prophets there in that congregation, specially mentioned. And then, all of a sudden, as he was serving there, uh, in Antioch, in Syria … not in Israel, but in Syria … why, God's spirit spoke to that congregation there in Antioch and said, 'Now, of all things you set aside, you, this congregation in Antioch, YOU set aside these two men, namely, Barnabas and Saul, for the work for which I have commissioned them.' And so the Antioch congregation did that! And they laid their hands upon Paul, or Saul, and Barnabas and sent them forth as a number of translations read … 'sent them forth.' And then they went forth by the holy spirit operating through the Antioch congregation, and they went out on their first missionary assignment.

So you see, the Lord Jesus Christ was acting as Head of the congregation and taking action directly, without consulting anybody here on earth what he could do or what he could NOT do. And he acted in that way with regard to, to Saul and Barnabas. And they were both apostles of the Antioch congregation. And so they went out on the work and had great success, and in course of time they completed their first missionary tour, and where did they go … where did they report? Well, there's a record, you read it for yourself in the closing verses of the fourteenth chapter of Acts: THEY WENT BACK TO ANTIOCH, TO THE CONGREGATION THERE, and the account says they related things in detail to them, to this congregation that had committed them to the undeserved kindness of God for the work that they had performed. So there's where they reported. So the record also says, now they stayed in Antioch not a little time.

Well, now, what happened? All of a sudden something, eh, occurs, and, uh, Paul and Barnabas, they go up to Jerusalem. Well, what's the matter? What brings them up to Jerusalem? Well, is it, uh, the body of apostles and of other elders of the Jerusalem congregation that have summoned them up there and said, 'Looka here. We have heard that you two men have gone out on a missionary tour … and you finished it, and you haven't come up here to Jerusalem to report to us. DO YOU KNOW WHO WE ARE? We're the Counsel of Jerusalem! Do you two recognize the headship of the Lord Jesus Christ? If you don't come on up here in a hurry, we're going to take disciplinary action against you.' Is that what the account says? Well, if they had acted that way toward Paul and Barnabas, because they reported to the congregation, uh, by means of which the holy spirit had sent them out, then this Counsel of Jerusalem, of apostles and of other elders of the Jewish congregation would have put themselves ABOVE the headship of the Lord Jesus Christ.

But that isn't what occurred. You know what happened, how Jews came down from Jerusalem and stirred up the matter of circumcision, and, eh, it troubled the congregation there in Antioch so much that the ANTIOCH congregation sent Paul and Barnabas UP TO JERUSALEM, to have the Counsel settle the issue. And, of course, being sent by the Couns … by the congregation at Antioch, they had to come back and report and advise the congregation of the settlement of the question, or the decision that was made by the Counsel there at Jerusalem. And THEN it was, when they were arguing in favor of Christians from the gentiles not having to be circumcised like Jews … it was THEN that Paul and Barnabas told what God had done by means of them in the gentile world. And THEN it was that the counsel got the report. Then they went back to Antico...och,, which had sent them forth to make known the decision, and the Jewish, then, eh, Counsel, why, sent along two men, Judas and Silas, with them. And so they delivered the report from the Counsel and, eh, there was great rejoicing among the gentile believers.
 

Fred Franz was the vice president at the time he gave this talk and became the president two years later.

WOW.....those are some ballsy quotes in this weeks WT. Thanks for posting...........I plan on sending these to a couple of 'on the fencers'......

Does this mean everything they have been wrong about was actually Jehovah that was wrong????

Wow.

I could never figure it out either...

they say they're not inspired prophets,

but they claim god is directing them, and they have a lot to say about what's coming "soon"

but still they keep getting stuff wrong and need to make changes.

I smell a rat.  A big, fat Brooklyn Blowhard rat.

    WT, october 2012

DagothUr, is that real?