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How many have had a problem with the confession idea to elders?

    F Hope4Others posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:29:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 758 of 3973
    Joined 1/28/2008

    I use to, well I still do think its no better than the confession idea to a priest.

    1. How many elders step down and are removed and what then?

    2. How many people have access to the file cabinet?

    3. My biggest thought is How many that are no longer elders repeat the dirty little secrets?

    Has anyone ever thought about that?

    hope4others

    F aSphereisnotaCircle posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:44:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 485 of 1822
    Joined 6/13/2006

    I don't think it really matters whether the elder has stepped down or been removed. In my old hall I heard all the juicy gossip both in my own hall and several of the surrounding halls.

    I have never known anyone as gossipy as some of the local elders. The more lurid the details the quicker the word got around. And no, I didn't hear it from elders wives, I heard practically no gossip from the wemmin. I heard it when the elders would spill all the details to my active, but not even a MS husband.

    Honestly, those elders could not keep there mouths shut and apparently there was nothing anyone could do about it. Looking back, I don't see how I managed to have any respect for those men at all, but somehow, I did.

    F momzcrazy posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:53:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 2398 of 3919
    Joined 10/17/2007

    Me!!!

    They are just men. NOT God.

    momz

    F Amber Rose posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:54:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 373 of 441
    Joined 11/17/2006

    I used to wonder how bad did you have to be to need to have to go the elders about it. In other words, at what point do you need to assemble a team to ask for god to forgive you?

    M asilentone posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:57:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 26 of 5726
    Joined 3/25/2008

    I should not have confessed my sins to the elders at all. Thanks to the Watchtower making me feel guilty!

    M OnTheWayOut posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:03:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 6184 of 18152
    Joined 9/8/2006

    1. How many elders step down and are removed and what then?

    As mentioned, it doesn't matter that they resign as elders. They can start telling others
    while they are elders. Basically, any discussion one elder has with a member, if he
    feels that he can get advice or just wants to share a juicy story, he tells the whole
    body, then someone tells someone outside the body. It gets around.

    2. How many people have access to the file cabinet?

    That's just the elders from the one congregation. While the lock is easy to pick or
    might be left open, it's pretty paranoid to assume anyone goes into the cabinet to dig
    up dirt on you (exception for investigators for a divorce/custody suit). I never heard of
    publishers rummaging through the cabinet. All the elders get to read what's there and
    even they don't bother to look.

    3. My biggest thought is How many that are no longer elders repeat the dirty little secrets?

    I am not sure what you are getting at. My concern after they reminded me that elders can
    commit sins that are not widely known and be repentant when it comes to light years later, is
    that this encouraged elders to keep their dirty little secrets and STAY ELDERS.

    F Casper posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:16:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 462 of 1760
    Joined 4/6/2001

    Hubby and I were in a car group one morning with 2 Elders, they began discussing a JC meeting they had had the evening before with a sister... and I'm thinking....

    I shouldn't be hearing any of this...

    Didn't seem to bother them tho.........I personally wouldn't want to mention anything to them, there's no way to guarantee anything would remain confidential.

    Cas

    M OnTheWayOut posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 19:29:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 6185 of 18152
    Joined 9/8/2006

    I was an elder that moved away, but my wife's family was still in the old congregation.
    Years later, I am visiting. I am an elder in another congregation and I am with a
    couple of elders from the old cong. They start telling me about the JC for my
    in-law (something I would not be involved in because of family even if I was there still).

    So now I knew the whole situation. At an elder's meeting, they are not supposed
    to reveal details- only the charge and the outcome. That rarely happens. It certainly
    doesn't happen when elders meet outside the backroom.

    F AudeSapere posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 20:04:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 2091 of 4427
    Joined 2/2/2006

    1. How many elders step down and are removed and what then? I have no comment on this one.

    2. How many people have access to the file cabinet? Probably depends on each individual congregation. I remember in the 70's that my brother and I would snoop thru my dad's briefcase. We found a few things. Some were fairly juicy but I don't recall the specifics.

    3. My biggest thought is How many that are no longer elders repeat the dirty little secrets? A friend I grew up with became an elder. I was surprised at how much and how easily he shared sensitive information with his friends (me included).

    JWD poster 'Confession' had a problem with this concept, too. He's written much about it from his very first post - where he didn't want to engage in apostate rhetoric.

    I 'confessed' one time. It was when I was pioneering. BIG mistake. Although no judicial committee was formed (I hadn't given all details), it sure made things uncomfortable in the presence of the elder. Especially when he would ask me in front of others how things were going.

    -Aude.

    F Hope4Others posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:10:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 765 of 3973
    Joined 1/28/2008
    otwo: My biggest thought is How many that are no longer elders repeat the dirty little secrets

    Its not the sins of the elders, its the personal things about the people in the congregation that have come forth with sins. Also if any elders who

    have been removed or become embittered, disfellowshipped or whatever reason there is nothing to prevent them them from repeating things they

    know about the people to anyone, whether witnesses, work mates etc.

    hope4others

    F Hope4Others posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:12:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 766 of 3973
    Joined 1/28/2008

    asphereisnotoaCircle,

    I heard it when the elders would spill all the details to my active, but not even a MS husband

    I always suspected things like that.

    hope4others

    F Hope4Others posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:15:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 767 of 3973
    Joined 1/28/2008

    momscrazy,

    NOT God.

    But they think they are the next closest thing to him, besides the Gb.

    hope4others

    M 10p posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:30:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 34 of 133
    Joined 3/22/2008

    Its not just the privacy issue either that bothered me ... it was that they dig down to get all the filthy details.

    All they need to do really is say "this is the JW definition of fornication ..." then explain how it includes oral sex etc ... "are you confessing to fornication?"

    And then with dignity and remorse, the person could admit. But the filthy bastards don't ... they ask things like "did he ejaculate in you?" and completely demean you.

    And you are not allowed to bring in witnesses either ... thats just WRONG. The whole 'judicial' system of JWs stinks rotten. The society takes their fancy lawyers to supreme courts around the world that have juries and are open to the public, and the defense is allowed an attorney etc ... but they deny these simple 'checks and balances' to the flock.

    F Hope4Others posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:32:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 768 of 3973
    Joined 1/28/2008

    amber rose,

    assemble a team to ask for god to forgive you

    they are just men, I never really had any good thoughts about this process in my whole jw days.

    asilentone,

    should not have confessed

    I'm sure most of us feel that way now, "We feel guilty for even simple nothings".

    casper,

    Hubby and I were in a car group one morning with 2 Elders

    Yes, I recall quite well the trusty little car groups. hmmm

    audesphere,

    I remember in the 70's that my brother and I would snoop thru my dad's briefcase. We found a few things. Some were fairly juicy

    And what did you do with those new things??

    Especially when he would ask me in front of others how things were going

    Trying to embarrass you a little like "I know what you did".

    hope4others

    F Hope4Others posted Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:40:00 GMT(4/3/2008)

    Post 769 of 3973
    Joined 1/28/2008

    10p

    But the filthy bastards don't ... they ask things like "did he ejaculate in you?" and completely demean you.

    And you are not allowed to bring in witnesses either ... thats just WRONG.

    Why do they need all the nitty gritty details anyways? Yes I did it, Yes I'm sorry. You wouldn't be sorry if you weren't there the rest it just crap I don't even think the catholic church

    confession asks for intimate details. And everyone should have a witness or recording for back-up to what they say.

    hope4others

    F Rosie Angel posted Fri, 04 Apr 2008 03:24:00 GMT(4/4/2008)

    Post 9 of 11
    Joined 12/8/2006

    I don't trust them to keep secrets while they are elders. My Mom said that she told two elders during a confidential meeting that I had run away and moved in with my worldly boyfriend. When she went to the District Convention that year, somehow, EVERYONE knew. Because I was well-liked in the congregation, it was a big shocker for everyone, so a lot of people that Mom hardly knew came up to ask if it was really true and express their condolences. I wish that she'd have gotten angry at the elders for doing the wrong thing, but nooooo, it was all MY fault.

    F Hope4Others posted Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:03:00 GMT(4/4/2008)

    Post 775 of 3973
    Joined 1/28/2008

    Rosie Angel

    a lot of people that Mom hardly knew came up to ask if it was really true and express their condolences.

    Did it make you feel bad that your mom said anything to the elders at all? Myself I can be quite protective now that I have left jw land towards my children.

    No jw gets to know anything about what they do, where they go, who they date including "outlaws", I can be quite evasive when necessary the general public(jw's) really only want to bein

    the know it isn't because they really care. (imo) Hope everything is going well for you, and Welcome to the board. I hope to here from you lots.

    hope4others

    hope4others

    R.Crusoe posted Fri, 04 Apr 2008 08:07:00 GMT(4/4/2008)

    Post 2057 of 2597
    Joined 3/29/2007

    Personally, I would not expect others to feel compelled to tell me anything had I ever entertained the notion of being elder drool!

    The notion of it employs guilt as a life style, but that's JW lifeblood anyhow, so the problem is with the whole ethos as well as elder garbage!

    F LouBelle posted Fri, 04 Apr 2008 09:08:00 GMT(4/4/2008)

    Post 1583 of 5086
    Joined 5/19/2005

    I never admitted anything to the elders - I reasoned they were only men. Even when they found something out and wanted me to implicate someone else I would refuse - would tell them to go speak to the person concerned and leave me outta it.

    M Connaughty posted Mon, 07 Apr 2008 03:48:00 GMT(4/7/2008)

    Post 93 of 111
    Joined 8/9/2007

    The system works well if the Elders can respect the privacy of the congregation.

    In our congregation, I was the secretary, and only I and the PO had the keys to the congregation files. The Judicial Committee files however were in a a metal file box that had a separate lock(the PO and I had the keys for this box}. Not all the Elders in the body knew of the details of the files in that box, but they did know about the charges for the congregation member.

    We had good body that respected the privacy of such matters, but I do recall two elders that would reveal details to their spouses. They were removed for doing so.

    Something disturbed me when I was pioneering in the early 70's. I was talking to a person whose sister was married to an Elder in a congregation in the East of Canada. I asked this person if she had any news about a brother who I had met back then. She was apparently visiting her sister down East, and what she told me was details that could of only been given in a judicial committe. This person giving the info wasn't even in the organization. There was a definite breach of confidentiality there.

    I do see the need for talking and confiding our problems to a Mature individuals, but it will backfire if that person can't respect your confidence. You may be better off talking to a Schrink who is under law to maintain your confidence.

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